Ah, 2007. How quickly you came and went. And how much good music you managed to deliver along the way. In the wide world, 2007 saw bands and companies employing new means to deliver music, while ways to listen to that music practically overwhelmed the marketplace. 2007 saw reunions by some of music’s biggest artists (Do we deserve Zeppelin and Verve in the same year?!) and reissues of many classic albums we’ve loved. Podcasts exposed us to an increasing number of new artists, many of whom hit the ground running with some of the year’s best discs. Yet established artists held their own and proved again why they are artists we respect and love.

Perhaps our new positions as Editors of InterMedia gave us more access or we were simply paying more attention, but everything in 2007 seemed to point toward a rapidly expanding musical horizon. Whatever it was, 2007 delivered more impressive albums than we could honestly cope with.

And this explains how we came up with the two very diverse lists we’ve compiled below. These are your Editors’ favorite albums from a bountiful year!

ANDY’S TOP ALBUMS

When some of my friends hear me prattle on praising the best music of the year, they return kind but quizzical looks. “I couldn’t name a single record released in 2007,” one confessed.

To the person not paying attention, the music business is just another struggling, mainstream behemoth adjusting to the chaotic forces of a millennial market ecology. To me, it’s the anti-business of amazing artists arriving at the mysterious threshold to perpetually massage my ears, head, and heart.

While I cannot name the day when I went from being a serious music fan and zinester-turned-blogger to an obsessed pop music fanatic, webzine editor, festival frequenter, and weekly radio host, my appreciation for great music in 2007 can be measured in part by how much of my free time I devoted to this third career. Of course, I remember this reckless rock and roll ache from my high school days: the unquenchable ecstasy of slipping out on weeknights to catch shows and staying up until dawn to write about them.

As I read in a recent Rolling Stone news blip, many industry insiders predict that the portable, digital jukeboxes of the online subscription services will pave the future of for the serious fans. I must confess my unequivocal concurrence. While the brand-name matters little (for me it’s Napster-to-go and a compatible Creative Zen player), the construct has changed my listening habits in seismic shudders of sheer ear-bleeding bliss.

Now, I know that “instant gratification” gets a bad rap in some circles, but to me, music acquisition has never been so soothing and seductive an adventure, with me lovingly clicking away at the laptop to access the universe without ever unhooking the headphones. Radiohead’s visionary gesture to bypass it all and offer its injection of fuzzy confection directly to fans was the download heard round the world. I’m still trying to reckon with the In Rainbows hype and backbite and may be for some time to come.

Back in “oh-four,” Bush-bashing was the bait on every agit-prop artist’s hook, and while anti-war anthems continue to populate many of the year’s best records, a topical shift has us treading on waters even more choppy with the waves of fear and future-shock. Eight years since we partied like it was 1999, global dread has grown into a pop commodity of delectable desperation.

As the calendar crashes toward another turn, rock’s growl and grime and synth-pop’s glam and slime are our answer to the sub-prime crisis, once again mortgaging our souls to rock and roll!

1) Band of Horses – “Cease to Begin”
Frankly, I can’t turn this record off. It’s one to listen to every day and do to your soul like orange juice and yoga. Perhaps it’s the general darkness of the times that adds to the seductive denial of this disc’s sunny disposition. Born-again southerner Ben Bridwell brings the happy noise—a heart-swell of sing-a-long indy lushness, something to soothe the people pining for the next My Morning Jacket record.

2) The Arcade Fire – “Neon Bible”
All the ink spilled and inspiration testified regarding this record: it’s all true and then some. When Neon Bible snuck into my ears in late winter, it wrecked me. The prophetic surge of this sonic collective caressed my brain’s brawn and belligerence. Beyond protest poems, these piercing hymns of hypnotic hopelessness are too believable and beautiful to deny. When I saw this group live in early May, it was one of those moments for permanent memory and bragging rights. Months later, the mystery and magic hold.

3) Kings of Leon – “Because of the Times”
In this crunchy, country barbecue of bass lines and drum fills, we find a relentless local recipe of guitar riff and lyrical myth. Lithe and lethal, my Kings of Lebanon have littered rock’s reputation with their own reckless revision of the rags to riches myth. Basically, these are some young men with a serious yearning and willingness to bypass the brutal trenches that makes permanent bar-bands of too many of their potential peers.

4) Radiohead – “In Rainbows”
Thom Yorke’s yummy yawp gives years to the moment, extending the instant of the download-heard-round-the-world into an eternity. The gritty weightless gravity of Greenwood’s guitar can crush the buzz about the band’s anti-business decision to basically give the album away. There’s too much good about this band and this gesture to package into a “best of” summary—this is the business of isness: something historical, something special, and something transcendental.

5) Yeasayer – “All Hour Cymbals”
Let the choir sing! Too gospel to be either pop or punk, this band is gooey and gritty enough to be both. Yeasayer’s yumminess pushes the boundaries of indy-everything into tribal effervescence. We can hear echoes of TV on the Radio and Talking Heads and town square sing-a-longs. Tapping the spiritual advantages of a mixed-up and magical musical messiness, this Brooklyn brew begs new definitions of brilliance. A harrowing urban hoedown of hope and secular holiness. A band my spirit has been waiting for!!

6) The Cave Singers – “Invitation Songs”
We all know that folk is punk in too many ways, yet here we go again: not another ensemble of ex-rockers turned motherfolkers! But the labels and litanies don’t really matter when the mojo gets you in the guts of darker regions. From the depths of your heart’s imaginings, this collection of hypnotic campfire hymns could conjure hope or hate or any other idea or emotion—bringing beautiful songs like water from the well, like heaven from hell, like honey nectar from the root of nothingness.

7) Bright Eyes – “Cassadega”
Many might learn about the backlash before they dig the devout musical and lyrical brilliance in Bright Eyes. Sure, it’s sometimes hard to stomach a prolific prodigy, but make that pretender the person of Conor Oberst, dubbed the “frog prince of emo,” recently blamed by one blogger for this year’s Omaha shootings, and we have the makings of a critical mess. Listeners would best leave behind internet inferences and fleeting reputations. Instead, just cue-up Cassadega, a convincing folk-rock epic that’s even more emotionally relevant when divorced from the “emo” tag and all its baggage. Look, let’s just check the band’s references: the likes of lush-alt-country goddess Gillian Welch is willing to open for Bright Eyes at the Ryman, and from this, we might accept that all the comparisons to the freewheeling young Dylan are more than so-much hype for a post-hippy prophet in his own right.

The White Stripes – “Icky Thump”
Nothing complicated about the bullshit-skewering white-boy blues brought by Jack White as it rips back the meat to suck on the bones. Dueling doubt, this duo disses the dressed up music of every other genre, offering straight shots of Tennessee moonshine and pure injections of Motor City mojo. Friends like to tease me about how much I love this band for its red-and-black, Tennessee-to-Detroit shit-kicking axis of anti-evolution, and I don’t mind. I love to listen to the girls that love Jack and the boys that love Meg and all the old-school primary colors of genius generated by the many stripes of our fandom.

9) Iron and Wine – “The Shepherd’s Dog”
Years ago, friends tried to turn my head to Iron and Wine, but my attention wavered and went elsewhere. With this new record reckoned “a significant departure,” I’m joining the club of faithful without reservation. Sweetly soothing songs from Sam Beam could carouse with the dead. Just the delivery could turn anyone on to all night séances with everything—but then there’re the lyrics. With this collection, surrealist verses stir the heart muscles of adept students listening to their lessons from a stoned William Faulkner-meets-Shel Silverstein shaman.

10) Ryan Adams – “Easy Tiger”
For the last few years, I’ve finally taken the time to gently gravitate into the albums of artists whose reputations more than preceded them. Among many other new loves, this is the year I finally embraced the indy-twang of the incomparable Ryan Adams. Since my ears for music always need to keep pace with my eyes for good music criticism, I rarely arrive at an artist without expectations. With Adams, let’s just say the road I had to walk was steeper than with others. But after seeing an unforgettable live set on a rainy October night, my appetite for the albums increased infinitely. And I’m still unschooled enough to really dig Easy Tiger without comparing it to previous works.

11) The National – “Boxer”
12) Wilco – “Sky Blue Sky”
13) Robert Plant & Alison Krauss – “Raising Sand”
14) Editors – “An End Has A Start”
15) Eddie Vedder – “Music for the Motion Picture Into The Wild”
16) Amy Winehouse – “Back to Black”
17) Puscifer – “V is for Vagina”
18) Akron/Family – “Love Is Simple”
19) Kanye West – “Graduation”
20) Rilo Kiley – “Under the Blacklight”

KIM’S TOP ALBUMS

Like Andy, I have spent the year marveling at the sheer amount of new music being produced. My bank account was quickly screaming at me as I spent more money than I should on albums and concerts.

With the piles of new music coming at us this year, it was often easy to get lost in the mix. Which is why, in the noise, I was looking for albums that particularly stuck out and made themselves heard.

Contrasting with Andy’s list, mine features many fairly new or newly-hyped artists who produced outstanding albums which made me excited to be a music fan. From metal to funk to psychedelic rock to classic soul, this year produced an eclectic mix of music for every mood and reminded me why I do this job.

1) The Aliens – “Astronomy for Dogs”
You know how, when an album becomes an integral part of your life, you kind of forget the time when you didn’t listen to it? The Aliens’ oddly-titled debut album did that for me this year, making it my top pick of 2007. Every song holds something different, from straight-up rockers to unexpected classical piano ballads to loveable and bouncy dance music. The band successfully delve into any musical style that will serve the music they were born to make. And this creates a delightfully eclectic mixture of sounds and themes that kept me listening from beginning to end. Hell, this album would be worth it simply for the charming tune aptly called “The Happy Song” – listen to it and try to resist the smile!
Songs: “Robot Man” & “She Don’t Love Me No More”

2) Radiohead – “In Rainbows”
Though variously lauded and derided for the way they chose to distribute their album, there is no denying that Radiohead made one of the best albums of the year. So good, that I was finally able to get past the daunting hype of Radiohead’s musical past to become a bonafide fan. Joe Levy from Rolling Stone commented that the band started playing these songs in concert and then recorded them in the studio. Perhaps that is why these songs stay firmly rooted in strong melody (unlike some other Radiohead outings which lose me in the ether). There is a reason why this is the only album to make both mine and Andy’s lists and why it topped most “Best of” lists this year. So stop reading about it, stop denying it and listen to the album already!
Songs: “Bodysnatchers” & “All I Need”

3) The Budos Band – “The Budos Band II”
Though unimaginatively titled – this is the band’s second album – this disc rated highly for me because of its extraordinary imagination. Take contemporary musicians and give them a love for old-school funk music. There you have the basic recipe for the Budos Band and its unique brand of retro-funk. This is music that will make you feel like watching film noir (listen to “Budos Rising”) and boogieing at the same time. Watch out for the brass section of the band who take center stage on most of the songs and deliver killer performances. This record is one of the year’s best for its diversity and for its cohesive feel. Props go to Daptone Records (who also produce Sharon Jones, my next pick) for providing these stellar musicians an outlet for their incredible music.
Songs: “Origin of Man” & “Chicago Falcon”

4) Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings – “100 Days, 100 Nights”
Sharon Jones is not new to the music scene or to life, and that is perhaps the appeal of her music. Throwing back to the days of the classic girl groups, Sharon Jones and her band, the Dap-Kings, specialize in retro sounding R&B and funk perfectly packaged into brilliantly performed pop songs. Jones sings soulfully of love – both good and bad – in a voice that speaks of the years she has seen. After decades as a backing singer for other superstars, Jones is finally claiming the credit she deserves as an important voice of twentieth- and twenty-first century pop music.
Songs: “100 Days, 100 Nights” & “Humble Me”

5) Maxїmo Park – “Our Earthly Pleasures”
Their debut album rocketed the band into the spotlight as a new wave of guitar-pop took over the music scene a few years ago. Singing of love for women and the world, Maxїmo Park delivers another stunning album of literate pop music which houses some of the catchiest melodies of the year. It’s easy to love Paul Smith’s earnest vocal performances as the band behind him springs from note to note with unbounded energy. As an English teacher, I also have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who writes songs like “Books from Boxes” and “Russian Literature.”
Songs: “Our Velocity” & “Russian Literature”

6) Kaiser Chiefs – “Yours Truly, Angry Mob”
Like Maxїmo Park, the Kaisers had stellar success with their first album and announcements of an upcoming disc left critics wondering if the band could ever hope to match it. Yours Truly, Angry Mob screams a resounding “Yes!” The Kaisers manage to have just as much riotous fun as they did before, with songs that blend seamlessly into setlists. Though revisiting themes like love (“Ruby”), childhood (“Boxing Champ”), and fame (“Retirement”), the band dig a little deeper this time and offer a somewhat darker view of things. This record proves that the Kaisers do what they do best and makes my “top” list for sheer riotous fun.
Songs: “The Angry Mob” & “Love’s Not a Competition (But I’m Winning)”

7) Bang Camaro – “Bang Camaro”
Speaking of riotous fun, Boston’s Bang Camaro released their debut album this year. It is a big record filled with massive tunes ripe for starting parties. This band of 20+ members, depending on the night and the town, has had an incredible year with tours of the country, features on MTV, and songs in popular video games like “Guitar Hero” and “Rock Band.” These guys are bringing back bangin’ metal music in a big way with tongue-in-cheek nods to ego-tripping bands (listen to “You Know I Like My Band”) and their outrageous behavior (listen to “Pleasure Pleasure”). They even do an awesome send-up of the obligatory metal band power ballad with a song aptly titled “The Ballad.” Turn this record up to 11, strap on the air guitar, and enjoy the juicy musical goodness oozing from its tunes.
Songs: “Push Push (Lady Lightning)” & “The Ballad”

Black Rebel Motorcycle Club – “Baby 81”
God only knows what the title means, but perhaps it’s code for “these songs will rock you.” BRMC has consistently put out great rock ‘n’ roll albums and Baby 81 is no exception. The fact that they also manage to make strong political statements adds to the appeal of this album. There is dirt here: something that makes you believe these guys have done it all and are ready to tell you about it. One of the most prophetic lines on the disc comes from “Weapon of Choice”: “I won’t waste my love on a nation.” It’s a clarion call for the times, and it comes packaged in an awesome rock tune. BRMC deserves to be among the best again this year for not being afraid to make dirty rock music which just might make you angry enough to want to change the world.
Songs: “Weapon of Choice” & “Killing the Light”

9) Jamie T – “Panic Prevention”
Earlier in the year I was invited to see an artist named Jamie T in a small bar in Boston. And a new obsession was born. At that point, Jamie T was beginning his first small tour of the US, despite his massive success in the UK. I must admit that I was struck at first simply by Jamie’s sometimes grating voice. But these songs, even with their thick English slang, soon became lodged in my head and wouldn’t let go. Backed up by the sparse bass guitar thump and the odd sample here and there, this record made my list because it challenged the music trends of the year and offered up a truly unique new voice.
Songs: “Sheila” & “If You Got the Money”

10) Sinead O’Connor – “Theology”
Sinead O’Connor has been a musical force for so many years, it’s hard to remember a soundscape without her. She has tried most musical styles – her latest outings feature trips into traditional Irish music and classic reggae – and has made no secret of her search for both God and music. And she finds a wealth of each on Theology. It’s a sensitive album Sinead says she’s been waiting to make – a love song for God, her family, and – she emphasizes heavily – for her fans, all of whom she credits with giving her the gift of music. The album is also a unique look at the production of music. Theology is a two-disc album which features the “Dublin sessions” and acoustic arrangements of Sinead’s songs, as well as the “London sessions” which are the same songs recorded with full band arrangements. Both discs work equally well, making it hard to choose one version over another. In the end, though, it comes down to the fact that Sinead’s is an important voice of love and peace to balance out the hatred and disillusionment that has crept into the world and into music lately.
Songs: “Something Beautiful (Dublin Sessions)” & “Rivers of Babylon (London Sessions)”

11) Mika – “Life in Cartoon Motion”
12) Editors – “An End Has a Start”
13) Yeasayer – “All Hour Cymbals”
14) Wax Tailor – “Hope & Sorrow”
15) Patti Smith – “Twelve”
16) Klaxons – “Myths of the Near Future”
17) Justice – “

Fresh off a 40-city headlining tour with Shiny Toy Guns, Jonezetta and The Whigs, Paul Meany, lead singer/keytar player/magician of the alt-rock band Mute Math, took time to share with Interference where he found the band’s hyper drummer, how the keytar has always been cool and details about the mysterious home-made instrument, the Atari.

Mute Math, a four-piece from New Orleans, also features Greg Hill (guitars), Roy Mitchell-Cardenas (bass) and Darren King (drums/samples/programming). The band’s sound includes hints of everything from DJ Shadow and Bjork to U2 and The Police. The band recently played Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, the Warped Tour, England’s V Festival and the CMJ Music Marathon in New York City.

Mute Math’s self-titled debut is available on Warner Bros. The band will play Jimmy Kimmel Live Dec. 1. on ABC, tour with “How to Save a Life” hit makers The Fray through January, and visit Europe in February.

So, tell us, how was the CMJ Music Festival? What was the experience like for you guys?
There’s nothing more addicting for our band than playing shows in New York. I actually forgot that it was CMJ. We were in Times Square at BB Kings. It was splendid.

Your shows are so energetic – how do you keep the energy level up every night, as well as the spontaneity?
How do you get bulls to buck at a rodeo? And you should know it works on humans too.

Some of you have even suffered a few injuries during the tour because of your live show. Darren’s hand was all bloody toward the end of the show in Lawrence, Kan., yet he still managed to play the beat-heavy “Reset” with one hand. Explain how this is humanly possible.
It’s not. Darren was genetically engineered in an underground lab just outside of a small Siberian town called Fruscher. I found him on eBay.

How did the idea of MuteMath form? I know some of you were together in Earthsuit, which was very different sonically.
Well as soon as Darren arrived in the mail, we got to work. We wrote some songs, played some shows, found some more musicians, and before we knew it we had a band. I think in the beginning, Mute Math was just a side project for us, as we were spending more of our time trying to launch another band called Macrosick.

Some of your lyrics seem to have a spiritual side to them, Paul. It seems like a lot of bands – i.e. U2, Moby, Doves, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club – are drawn to exploring that aspect of life, lyrically. Where does your inspiration come from for your lyrics?
I grew up in a very strict religious home. Had the do’s and don’ts of the Bible drilled into my head. I think, the older I got, the more suspicious I became of what all of that stuff was about, but was still strangely drawn to it. I have to assume everyone at some point in their life has had some tie in with religion whether they’ve embraced it or not. I think it’s a valid subject matter that intrigues us all on some level. As much bullshit that inherently gets attached to that topic, it’s still a part of me somehow, and when I sit down to write songs those ideas inevitably surface.

Musically, who are you influenced by as a band? There’s definitely a hint of the Police on songs like “Chaos,” and “Noticed.”
Well it’s no secret that we love the Police. They are in my opinion one of the classic bands who could write simple great songs and take it to new heights live. Other artists like Jimi Hendrix, The Who, U2, etc., all have written the text book on how to construct a complete musical experience.

Many people – fans and critics – are touting Mute Math as the “next big thing.” What’s it like hearing that, even before your debut album hit stores?
I think that phrase is way overused and doesn’t really mean anything anymore. I’m more concerned with just etching out a little nook in the music world where Mute Math can live and make music for a long time.

Your life on the road has been well-documented in your MySpace videos/iTunes podcast. You even rotate photos you receive from fans quite regularly on your site (many of which are quite good). How important is technology to the development of the Mute Math community you’ve created?
Actually, we owe a lot to electricity if you want to break it down. Forget about Tom [founder of MySpace] . . . what about Thomas Edison and Benji Franklin?

How was “Plan B” selected as the first single? There’s so many possible first singles on this album.
We didn’t select Plan B as the single, iTunes did. From the way I understand it, iTunes picks their favorite song, and you either go with it or you don’t get a single of the week. I like Plan B. It probably won’t end up as one of the officially released singles though.

You each play multiple instruments during your shows. Who plays the most instruments?
Out of necessity – Darren [King]
Effortlessly – Roy [Mitchell-Cardenas]
While wearing other instruments – Greg [Hill]
The wrong way – Me

Explain the keytar. How did you make it cool again? (If it ever was.)
I didn’t make it “cool again” . . . I just simply recognized an already existing phenomenon. I can’t take credit for the beauty in the flowers and trees just because I opened my eyes to see it.

Now explain the Atari.
I want you to imagine for a moment, if you will, a world where Atari games walk the streets of a red light district pimped by Radio Shack. The noises, the smells, the sights . . . That’s the Atari.

Your latest tour with The Whigs and Jonezetta winds up Nov. 19 at the Culture Room in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. What’s Mute Math’s next step toward world domination?
Getting our hands on a nuclear bomb.

For more information on Mute Math’s self-titled debut album and headlining tour, visit its official website or MySpace page.

(RED), a collaboration of various companies in support of The Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, recently launched a MySpace page. One of the organization’s friends is the Canadian band WHY, a group that’s been around for more than 10 years.

WHY (Brian Cook on vocals, Derek James on drums, Stephan Makarewicz on guitar and Greg Barre on bass) has supported causes like Make Poverty History and The Global Fund since its inception. In fact, George Stroumboulopoulos of the CBC News "The Hour" interviewed Cook about issues relating to HIV/AIDS and poverty on World AIDS Day 2005. This year, the band is supporting (RED) with the release of an album and single named for the organization.

Interference.com e-mailed the band about its history and connection to (RED), learning from lead singer Cook about how WHY integrated its belief in these causes into its music.

How long as WHY been together?

WHY has been around since 1993. We released four CDs, "The Naked Soul," "Suddenly Bang," "The Rise and Fall of the Question Mark" and, most recently, "Lazarus Effect," which is a CD to help make people aware of Make Poverty History and raise some funds for the MPH campaign. We are currently in the studio recording our next full length album "RED," due out this fall. The title track has been released to radio and we have a free download of the song on our website. We encourage anyone who wants to burn it and take copies to your local radio station and ask for airplay. This has been a great way to infect people around the world with our music.

Where did the band’s name come from?

I was watching a TV special on John Lennon around 1992 and there was a part filmed the day he died and fans were all around his and Yoko’s New York apartment with candles and signs and one sign just said "WHY." No question mark, just three capital letters, and I thought, "That’s the most used word in our troubled world." Henry Thoreau said, "Why is the beginning of knowledge," so it seemed right for a band with so many questions. We still do, by the way.

How would you describe your music?

I wouldn’t, I’d leave that up to you and anyone who listens to it. I find people take our songs as their own, which is very flattering and humbling. They tell us what we sound like to them. So I suppose I could say, "WHY: Whatever the music makes you feel." We get very passionate comments about how, "This certain song really got me through a rough spot" type of thing. That is the best thing to hear as a musician or artist of any medium for that matter.

Who are your musical influences?

U2 have left a stain on us, as have The Alarm, Bob Dylan, The Clash, REM, whatever we heard growing up. I wasn’t ever inclined to sing as a kid., it wasn’t until later I felt like I could express myself emotionally and, moreover, spiritually through music, rock ‘n’ roll.

It’s funny we get a lot of, ‘You sound like U2′ or "You sound like Bono," which is very flattering but I really am trying to be my own person, have my sound, create a new thing and I, in the past, used to get very frustrated with the Bono comparison so I would deliberately sing in a way that wasn’t my range or even try new styles, [like] sing rougher or softer. The more I tried to not sound like Bono, [the more] I’d get, "Hey, you really sound like Bono on that song," so I realized that I sing this way because that’s my voice and no point fighting it, just so happens I sound a bit like the greatest rock singer of all time. Not a bad thing, by the way, people could say I sound like [comedian] Emo Phillips when I sing.

How did your band become interested in the Make Poverty History and (RED) causes?

Well, the whole band is passionate about the destruction of stupid poverty. Speaking for myself, I was very involved with [Christian relief organization] World Vision through child sponsorship, (I still sponsor two children, really a great way to do something to help), and the [international youth hunger-fighting movement] 30 Hour Famine from the late ’80s through the ’90s. I used to go to schools as a rep for World Vision and speak and show films and get kids involved. Kids really believe, if you tell them, that their voice, their actions, their passion can change the world—and they’re right.

We as a band recently decided that from now until we end as a band, we will give a dollar from every WHY CD that is ever made to fighting extreme poverty, for now The Global Fund is who we will send cash to. Our next album "Red" will be used to draw attention to The Global Fund and raise money for them. "Lazarus Effect" is available online [and] we are giving a portion of the money from sales to Make Poverty History. In Canada, MPH is badly under-funded so we want to add our two cents.

I was fortunate to be able to produce a compilation CD for The Global Fund with some great Canadian bands like Our Lady Peace, 54-40, Finger 11, The Trews and unsigned local bands who believed in putting their music where their mouth is. It was called "Rock for a Reason: Artists United for African AIDS Relief." We only printed a couple thousand and it sold well. It raised $15,000.00 for The Global Fund and I got to interview Richard Feachem [executive director of The Global Fund] on a local alt rock radio station.

[Feachem] is on my short list of people to meet and talk face to face. [Also] on that list [are] Prof. [Jeffrey] Sachs, Sir Bob Geldof, Bono, although he and I met in Winnipeg back in 1997, along with Edge and Adam. I would really like to pick those brains on what we in the grassroots movement can do to make poverty history. WHY isn’t a big name band with clout, so our ranting about this issue isn’t as affective as, say, Bono, Brad Pitt and so on, but maybe one day we will be able to be a large pain in the ass of our PM here [Stephen Harper] in Canada or, for that matter, a global pain.

Why did you decide to write a song and name your album for "Red"?

That’s the magic of music, at least for me, as I don’t sit down with a plan, the music is constructed beyond us, it just pours through us. Red just seemed like a great color to touch on as it has so many different applications, for example, red can be a color for anger or passion or danger, sacrifice, heat, joy.

When it was done I was made aware of the (RED) campaign, so we offered it to (RED). No response as of yet, but they can use it for free. We plan on using it to promote (RED) and The Global Fund either way, they are getting the money no matter what. It really fits the campaign, though, doesn’t it? We were surprised how well it works. I guess a little help from the Divine Mover.

What kind of reaction has the song "Red" gotten from fans?

Very positive, people have had a very strong reaction to "Red." People have been downloading for free from us and have been put it on their iPods and, as one woman in Australia said in an e-mail to us, "I can’t stop listening to ‘Red,’ I listen to over and over." That is such a great thing to hear.

Have you gotten the song to people with (RED)? If you have, what reaction have you gotten from them?

We have been in contact with Sheila Roche at (RED) and she has it, but so far they haven’t got back to us. They are busy trying to save lives, mind you, so we are I’m sure [we're] at the bottom of their to-do list. I really hope they like it and use it as we have told them we want to give it to them free of charge if they can to use it.

What are you hoping to accomplish with the song "Red"?

Move people, inspire them. Look, if they just dig the tune and enjoy driving and listening to it, great, but if it can get people thinking passionately about (RED) or MPH and what they can do to help, even better. That’s all we can ask of a rock song, a single, as it were. Hey, it’s only rock ‘n’ roll, or is it?

You also have a song called "Lazarus Effect" about the AIDS crisis. What inspired this song?

The actual medical term "Lazarus Effect," which is what happens when AIDS meds are given to a dying person at death’s door due to HIV/AIDS—literally from death bed to up and walking around, working, feeding your family in a month. Back from the dead, a miracle like Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. I found the two images too powerful not to write about them.

Your band gave out copies of the new album at U2’s Canadian shows last year. Where did that idea come from? What kind of reaction did you got from U2 fans?

Well, first off, not our idea. It was a mad U2 fan from Ottawa who was a MPH volunteer who heard our songs on our website and, when "Lazarus Effect" came out, decided to order a bunch of CDs online and give them out. He also got us involved in a poverty symposium in Ottawa. He couldn’t work out a way to get us out to play there, sadly, but had us do a video feed and we were off and running.

As for U2 fans response, mostly great, supportive, very kind. I think some were leery of us, and understandably so. They didn’t know our history with the campaign, as far as they knew we could be using extreme poverty as a way to break the band. But actually we had lost money, not made money so far. We are lifers for this war on extreme stupid poverty. "Keep My Peace" is a song I wrote about this issue back 2000, it sums up our feelings on this front.

I have to say U2 fans are not like any other fans; they really are a community, a family, and if WHY can get people moved and united as U2 has, we will see that as our greatest success. I have met so many bands obsessed with "making it" or what they mean is, "When we’re famous men, then we will blah, blah, blah," that’s the top for them, the pinnacle, the goal. Fame isn’t our goal. Yes, it’s a platform to be heard, a springboard, but it’s not the Promised Land. Our goal is to do music full time and use fame as a tool to continue to push the envelope in songwriting. It’s a tool to use to swing the spotlight off of us and onto our family in Africa, Asia, and the developing world who are dying every three seconds for a lack of what we call pocket change, coffee money. And, yes, I call these people around the world "our family" because we are all connected. If a distant relative is ill or in need you still step up and help. Well, they are our sisters and our brothers as I sing in "Lazarus Effect."

Your band has a MySpace page. What kind of impact is that site having on your band and its mission?

Yes, we have recently taken over a WHY fan MySpace site and it has been almost frightening how fast the world has come to us. It is a wonderful thing. I know some have had issues with MySpace but it has been a great networking tool and MySpace is a big supporter of (RED).

As for "our mission," as you put it, our mission is to keep writing honest songs, no matter how uncomfortable or naked we feel. WHY is a band that has come from the grassroots of this issue (extreme poverty), we are like everyone else who saw the need and said, "I will not keep my peace, cannot keep my peace while this continues." This is a global mission; this is our fight.

Do you believe music can help change the world?

Music can inspire people to change the world. I hope that is the case with our songs. Let’s be real here, people, everyday people, change the world, not movie stars or rock stars or world leaders, regular people have and will change our world.

For more information on WHY, visit the band’s website or MySpace page. More information on (RED) can be found on its website or MySpace page. More information on The Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria can be found on its website. More information on Make Poverty History can be found on its website. More information on World Vision can be found on its website. More information on 30 Hour Famine can be found on its website.

Many thanks to John McAuley and Brian Cook for their help with this article.

Over the course of five years, Chicago Sun-Times‘ religion writer Cathleen Falsani interviewed 32 well-known people—among them intellectuals, artists, political pundits and rockers—for her book, "The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People." Subjects like Bono, Playboy founder and editor-in-chief Hugh Hefner and singer Annie Lennox all opened up to her questions about their individual faith and deeply held beliefs and doubts. Interference.com got to return the favor, asking her about the difference between religion and spirituality, how 9/11 impacted our faith, and even the similarity between church and a good U2 concert.

How did the interview process change or challenge your faith?

It didn’t change it in terms of the quality of what I believe. I didn’t go from being an evangelical Christian to being a Buddhist or anything like that. It did by virtue of the intimacy of the conversations I had and the candor and the generosity of spirit that the folks in the book offered to me. Beyond that, each one of them said at least one thing that I’ve continued to ponder since our encounters that really enlivened my faith. Some of it was challenging. Some of it was perplexing. Some of it was heartening. But every one of them said something that I’ve continued to carry with me. One of the first things that I think about when I wake up is something that one of them said to me and so I think that it’s enlivened my faith, but hasn’t changed what my faith is. In my best moments, it’s changed how I live my faith as a believer.

Russell Simmons was an unlikely source, some people might think, for spiritual wisdom, but he said something I think about all the time. Actually I think he’s quoting Louis Farrakhan when he says, "If you’re going to be a Christian, be a practicing Christian. If you’re going to be a Muslim, be a practicing Muslim. If you’re going to be Jewish, be a practicing Jew." And that’s something that I think about all the time. If I say I’m something, what does that really mean? And I hope people read it and come away with a similar experience. The book starts with a quote from one of my professors from college, Arthur Holmes [Wheaton College Professor Emeritus of philosophy and author]. It says, "All truth is God’s truth," which is something I think I heard in my sophomore year in college and have always said I believed. But this process of interviewing the people for the book, of talking to lots of different kinds of people with many different kinds of experiences in a short period of time sort of focused that and made that more real to me in a much different way than it ever had been before. And now looking for what God’s trying to tell me no matter who it’s coming from is something that I think about all the time in my interactions with everyone.

In my best moments, I try and be very conscious of the fact that everyone, as I understand it, is a child of God and everyone, whether they believe on paper the things that I do or not, might have something that I can find out God needs to tell me that I couldn’t find from any other source. Someone asked me previously in an interview, what did I learn, how has it changed the way I look at life. I think I listen more carefully, or at least I try to, both to the people around me and look for that still, small voice that the Bible talks about. I think I’m, in my best moments, much more respectful of the transcendence that’s all around, the fact that all truth is God’s truth and I should be on the look out for it. For many years something also that I learned fairly early in college was from a book that I read for theology class called "The Go-Between God," talking about how God is the bridge between people and that God makes the space for us to connect in a way that we wouldn’t otherwise and that’s something I think about in a much more visceral way now than before I wrote the book.

I’m kind of picking up that that’s the challenge you have now is to be on the alert for the divine.

Right. Keep awake and be listening carefully. Literally and figuratively.

Were there any interviews that stood out to you?

There are certain people that you connect with, by virtue of your personality, your shared history or something. Some people, you just connect with and you have no idea why. There are some people that I felt a different kind of a connection with although I felt something with every person there, otherwise they wouldn’t be in the book. People often say, "What’s your favorite chapter?" and, you know, it depends on my mood, but the one that I say most consistently is John Mahoney, the actor ["Frasier," "Say Anything"]. And John is someone who I’ve sort of known—vaguely—as a very loose acquaintance for a number of years. I’ve gotten to be around him in social settings and he’s a very, very gracious, kind, lovely man, and that’s his reputation. So here’s somebody I knew a little. I had kind of went into the interview thinking I sort of knew his story: you know, Irish Catholic, man of a certain age … I figured I sort of knew a little bit. I always try and leave my preconceived notions behind, and I’m pretty good at it. So by the time I got into the little restaurant to have lunch with him I was sort of like, let’s see what we find out, but I had no idea what I was going to discover and how moving it was and how much faith is the center of his life and how he has a deep well of love and faith and peace and other things … joy and that’s where this kindness comes from that he’s got this reputation for being unfailingly kind.

I found out during the course of our conversation that that’s actually a very intentional practice for him. So I learned so much about someone that I thought I already knew and that’s one conversation that I think about all the time. It was beautiful. It was quite sacred. A lot of these encounters were really sacred … very intimate, and I didn’t have to pry, people wanted to tell me things. John was one of those people. I had this happen to me a number of times. We were kind of done and he actually left to go ostensibly to put coins in the parking meter and have a cigarette and came back and when he came back in he decided he wanted to tell me something. John’s intensely private and he had told me something that I certainly never would have known to ask about. And he just felt he wanted to. [Rock singer and musician] Melissa Etheridge did the same thing. I don’t ask a lot of questions during these interviews; I didn’t have to. This wasn’t like prying a clam open by any means, these folks knew I was coming. Some of them had weeks or months to prepare and many of them really had things that they wanted to get off their chest. They all stand out to me in different ways. But John’s the one I always come back to and, of course, Bono. He’s in a category by himself, the wee Irishman. There is a reason we start with him and end with Elie [Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Prize-winning author of "Night"]. If you read the introduction to my book, that’s fairly self-evident. That and the fact that I spent more time with him than most of these people and it was over time.

You mention in your introduction how listening to "October" in your friend’s basement set you on a path to find God "in the places some people say God isn’t supposed to be." Would it be fair to call the song an inspiration?

Well, I don’t know if it was the inspiration for the book, it certainly set me on a particular trajectory that I’m still on 30 years later, sort of an inspiration for the way I see the world. Probably everything I’ve done in life was fueled by the catalyst of that epiphany that I had listening to that song when I was 12. And it was something I didn’t realize until I started working on the book and I saw life come full circle, as they say. That’s something that’s not supposed to happen more than a couple times in life, and usually when you’re much older so I’m very careful not to step in front of buses. I’ve seen about 10 of these things come full circle. I’ve had a lot of clarity about all these disparate things in my life experiences and parts of my history that at first seemed eclectic and wacky before and now they made sense, and he’s one of them. And that moment is one of them.

Is that by design on your part?

No, I’m an idiot. I think it’s God, more and moreso. Something I started trying to do a few years ago and do even more consciously since the whole book experience is to get out my way, just get out my own way and try to let God do whatever God’s trying to do. I could not have designed the perfect mix of people in this book. I could not have made them say the things that they said. I could not have planned the experiences that I did. The happenstances of the connections that a lot the people in the book have to each other that I had no idea about when I asked them to talk to me. There’s too much intricacy and serendipity not to think that, maybe that was the spirit moving. I don’t think it’s me. I’m just trying to get out of my own way.

I’m reminded a little bit of CS Lewis [author of sci-fi and Christian-themed novels] in some of what you’re saying. It seems to be that he was kind of willful about letting the self die, which is one of the hardest things in the world to do. Are there any other authors, or would he be a legitimate influence?

Oh sure, CS Lewis, [priest and author] Henri Nouwen, [Pulitzer Prize-nominated author and lecturer] Frederick Buechner, [author and professor] Anne Lamott, who’s a goddess and a prophet and I hope to be one 10th of her when I grow up one day—but without the dreadlocks. Those are just off the top of my head.

You mentioned that it seemed kind of serendipitous about the folks that came in to be interviewed. How did you pick them? Were there any you wanted to get but that you couldn’t?

I mostly picked people that I thought were interesting, or I liked what they do, or I heard them say something once that I thought was intriguing. But about 85 to 90 percent of the people in the book I had no idea what their spiritual predilections might be or not be before I asked them. Obviously, somebody like [Toronto Raptors center] Hakeem Olajuwon, I asked because, 1) he’s interesting; and 2) he’s a Muslim. Somebody like Elie Wiesel, I mean, I knew he was Jewish. But I didn’t know the answer to the great question about his faith: Is it still there? Is it not? Did you ever come out of that? If so, why? How? There are people like John [Mahoney], who I thought I might know his history but I didn’t. [Journalist and author] Tom Robbins I asked based on a complete fallacy from something I had read online. Apart from the fact that he’s one of my favorite authors in the world, a lot of his books deal with spiritual issues in the most irreverent of ways. I didn’t know what Melissa Etheridge’s background was. I asked [director] David Lynch because I knew he was a transcendental meditator, that’s why I asked him. It was kind of counterintuitive to the idea of what you think of when you think of a transcendental meditator and then you have "Blue Velvet." How does that work?

Most of the other people, I just thought they were interesting and they had a certain quality about them of introspection. There was something about them that made you think there were some deep waters there. And also they had a certain quality of openness about them. If I felt that someone wasn’t being genuine, or if they were giving me stock answers, or more so if they were just full of it, that this wasn’t the real person, you know, they’re not in the book. But that didn’t happen very often at all.

Were you able to call them on that?

No. I could have, I certainly could have. This book was done intentionally in a non-combative, non-dialogical way. I told them when I approached them, "I’m not going to judge you. I’m not going to say whether what you believe is real, right or wrong or genuine or otherwise." That wasn’t my job. My job there was very intentionally to not call them on disconnects that I might have seen or something that I thought was wrong or something that was factually wrong or whatever. That wasn’t my job. That would have led to a very different kind of conversation where I think they would have been far less candid than they actually were. I just let them say what they really said they believed.

Did you often have to fight the urge to proselytize?

I always fight the urge to proselytize. I don’t think proselytizing is a particularly helpful means to an end, at least not in the ways people think it is. People ask me about evangelizing. We all evangelize, we just do it in different ways. But to just hand you a tract about Jesus and the New Testament is not the way I did it. If they found out later that I’m a Jesusy—which is a better, more unloaded word—and they thought, "Wow, she wasn’t judgmental or mean-spirited" or many of those other things they may think about when you think about evangelicals, my work here is done. I don’t try to proselytize or evangelize intentionally through anything I write. I like to think of my life, in my best moments—when I’m getting out my own way—does that. The best way to evangelize is by living well and by loving well. And I tried to be loving with all these people. That I think I accomplished.

Your interview with Hugh Hefner seemed to surprise both of you. Can you talk a little about that?

Like I said, I really try very hard to leave my preconceptions in the car, but when you drive up to the Playboy mansion and the guy comes down in his silk pajamas, it’s hard to leave all of that in the car. It’s impossible to leave all that in the car. I think Hef was expecting someone very different and he was expecting a very different conversation. He’s talked about religion over the years, mostly about its role in society and how un-helpful it can be. I wanted to talk to Hef about Hef. It wasn’t a bad conversation at the beginning. The first 10 minutes he was giving me very thoughtful answers, but there was sort of this tension in the air. Very subtle. He was incredibly gracious, very kind, was listening carefully. But there was just a veil between us. And it wasn’t until we found common ground, completely in a different place, that that veil kind of blew away and we had the kind of conversation that you saw in that chapter. Our common ground was movies. I asked him, "What’s the most spiritual film you think you’ve ever seen?" He kind of hemmed and hawed and said, "You know, I’m not really a big fan of DeMille and those big biblical epics." I interrupted him, which is something I normally don’t do and I said, "Can I tell you mine? It’s ‘Harold and Maude.’"

(Photo credit: (copyright) Paul Natkin, 2005)

His face just melted into a huge smile. I didn’t know when I said that, but Bud Cort, who played Harold, is a good friend of his and still comes to the mansion on a fairly regular basis. Ruth Gordon, who played Maude, and her husband, who was a director, were also very dear friends of his and that it’s one of his favorite films. He said, "Well, if that’s what you’re talking about when you say spiritual, that’s a whole other ballpark." And then it was a completely different conversation. I like to think that was that "Go-Between God" that I was talking about. When I do interviews, I try to be very present, I try not to think about the next question I’m going to ask. I try to be really listening to what the other person is saying, because that’s the most respectful thing to do, is to be fully present. In this case, I was doing the "help-me help-me help-me" prayer, because it just wasn’t going where I thought it should be going. I didn’t know how to do that. "Harold and Maude"? Who knew? It’s brilliant. It’s one of the most soul-raising movies I’ve ever seen. It’s wonderfully quirky and very ’70s. It’s fabulous.

Was there anything that surprised you about your interview with Bono?

Everything, in good ways. The first time, when I knew I was going to be talking to him and spending this time with him on the road, I was absolutely terrified. Not that I was worried about me, I was worried that he would be a jerk or something and that I would be crushed. I was so concerned that he wouldn’t be what everyone expects him to be in those good ways. Thank you Jesus, he was better in every way and more delightful and more loving and more generous of spirit and smarter and funnier and naughtier and more profound and more deeply faithful than I could have wished him to be, and it was wonderful spending time with him. Life changing for me in some ways, because he is a very challenging person to be around in terms what it really means to be a faithful follower of Christ. I think I say somewhere in the book that he makes me want to be better in lots of different ways, to do more. He’s just that kind of guy. He’s not like Yoda or anything. There’s a difference between my experience with Bono, who’s incredibly profound in his wonderfully profane way, and Elie Wiesel. There’s a difference there. Elie Wiesel is Yoda; Bono, not so much. They had equally transformative effects on my life and I am blessed deeply to know both of them, even as little as I do.

Forgive me for asking, but why did you select Elie Wiesel as the book end?

Because if there’s anybody in that book … anybody in my life … who has every reason not to believe, he does. It’s him. I wanted to start with grace—that’s Bono—and end with hope—that’s Elie. For the book and my life … on a good day.

Speaking of Grace, I really liked the short piece you did with [jazz vocalist] Kurt Elling. I noticed that 9/11 seemed to have a big impact.

And that was something completely organic, that was something that came up in almost every conversation I had. That was a big thing for us as a people, as Americans, certainly, as a human race. That was a really jarring moment. It was like an asteroid hitting the planet, in a spiritual way. Everything was up for grabs after that. It was really traumatizing for everyone, not just the people who were there, and it continues to be. It changed the way we look at the world. We were attacked by people who said they were doing it in the name of God and that’s fucking frightening. I don’t care if you believe in a god or not. Maybe if you don’t it’s even more frightening because it makes the fanatics look even more fanatical. And so that made people think about spiritual things in a different ways. It led a lot of people to get their butts back in the pew, for a couple months anyway. But the more lingering effects, as I see it, having covered the God beat for 10 years, are these kinds of conversations that we’re having now that we didn’t have five years ago. I don’t think I could have done this book. I don’t think I could have gotten two-thirds of the people in the book to have these conversations five years ago, but that changed everything.

Do you think it was, at least on a spiritual perspective, a positive thing?

No. I don’t think God would employ horror and violence as a means to a good end, but it happened. There is a verse in scripture that says all things work together for good for them that love God. I don’t think God caused it or wanted it to happen. That’s not the God I know or understand, but the fact that we’re having this conversation in a different way, I think is a good thing. Did 9/11 need to happen for us to have it? I certainly hope not. But it did, so here we are. It’s not the only reason we’re having this conversation, but it’s a significant reason.

One thing I noticed, it seems so much that the really strict definitions by religion weren’t as common in your interviews.

They’re not as common in society, period, as I have experienced it over the last 10 years at least. The people in the book are certainly extraordinary people. This was not meant to be a reflection of what America is like today because these are not average people. That said, they are reflecting back to me what I see happening all around me as a journalist who covers this. There are people in there who will give themselves a label and they’re comfortable with that, as there are millions of people out there who will label themselves. Even the strictly religious people in the strictest sense of that word still have to make that their own in some way. Whether it’s [Chicago Cubs manager] Dusty Baker, who’s a Baptist—a label he applies to himself. But when he has cancer, he’ll go to a kahuna healer in Hawaii. That’s one more colorful example, but I know plenty of Catholics who call themselves Catholics, who are mass-goers and pray the rosary and call the Pope the Holy Father but they don’t believe everything that’s in that doctrine, but they are still "in the tent.’ I just think that’s more and more common. Strictly speaking, there are more people now than in 1970 who are willing to say they have no religious affiliation. I think it’s a jump between 5 and 10 percent. It’s still a very small portion of the population of the United States, but there are many more now than there were 30 years ago, but that’s not necessarily what I’m talking about.

I was curious as to whether you thought 9/11 had any impact on the fact that it seems people are less willing to call themselves fundamentally this or that.

Fundamentalist is like a naughty word.

It’s like the new "communist."

Someone once said fundamentalists are scarier to me than the Russians. Yeah, nobody wants to call themselves a fundamentalist, right? I don’t know if I had anyone in the book who would call themselves a fundamentalist. Fundamentalists have much more in common with each other than they do with the other people in their faith traditions. A Muslim fundamentalist and a Jewish fundamentalist and a Christian fundamentalist have way more in common with each other than they do with moderate Christians and secular Jews and Americanized Muslims.

There is something to the lesson we learned when the majority of the population learned the word Muslim on like September 12 and then we had to quickly learn that there’s a difference between the people who did what they did in the name of their God and they said in the name of Islam and the vast … vast, overwhelming, like 99.9 percent of the Muslims in the world. That taught us a lesson about labels. Just because you call something something doesn’t make it so, that labels aren’t terribly helpful. They’re usually fairly ill-fitting, I find. And they’re conversation enders. Melissa Etheridge said to me at one point, "Thank you so much for asking about this. People so rarely ask me about this and I like to talk about it, and when they do it’s like, ‘Are you religious?’ and I say, ‘No, I’m spiritual.’ And that’s the end of the conversation." What are you? I’m a Christian. Okay, What the hell does that mean? That’s nice. I know what I think it means, but what does it mean to you? Labels aren’t real helpful.

Now that you mention it, I remember you kept the "religion" word out of it and you focused more on spirituality. What, to you, is the difference?

Okay, I’ve got a great metaphor: The difference between religion and spirituality is akin to the difference between bourbon and whisky. Because all bourbon is whisky, but not all whisky is bourbon. And all religion is spirituality, but not all spirituality is religion. Get it?

I do. Your introduction ends with a coda that basically implies that you don’t think faith has changed much. What’s the commonality between say now and 10 years ago when you started?

I think faith is a thing. It’s like joy. It’s a thing unto itself that isn’t qualified by whatever else you put around it. Muslim faith. Christian faith, Zoroastrian faith. Vegan faith. Faith is just a thing. It doesn’t change. It’s a gift, as I understand it. It’s a spiritual gift. We live it and express it. And abandon it and embrace it in different ways. Faith itself doesn’t change. It is what it is. Religion changes. Spirituality changes. Dogma changes. Doctrine changes. But faith is always faith. Always has been, always will be.

How is it expressed differently now?

The quality of the conversation about faith has changed. Faith is just faith, like joy is just joy. Love … just love.

What is the one thing you would like your readers to take with you?

I think if people come away with a sense of urgency to listen better to the people around them, that would make me very happy, and if people would open their eyes and see that God is right there. If they get that from reading this, that would make me thrilled. Those are two things.

Is there something you could tell our readers that they don’t already know about Bono?

I was thinking about this. There are three things: He smells really good. Dolce & Gabbana for men, if I’m not mistaken. He is quite fond of corn-beef hash. And that ring he wears [on his pinky] was given to him by Larry, not Ali, and it’s a fish. I thought it was a griffin and told him as much and he was adamant, "No. It’s a fish. See?" . . . Bono’s forever losing things. This was a few years ago, so we could be on yet another incarnation of the ring, but at that point he’d lost it twice already. If I remember what B said correctly, the first time Larry gave it to him in yellow gold and he lost it and Larry had it remade in white gold and Bono lost that one, too, and now he’s on to platinum, I think. If memory serves, it looks kind of like a koi wrapped around itself.

Do you know the significance of the fish?

It’s a fish . . . I don’t know what the significance of it is.

Do you know much about the faith of the other members of U2?

No, I don’t know them. I’ve been around them but I’ve never had this conversation with them. Love to, but until I do, I’m not going to guess. When people guess they’re usually wrong. Lovely men all.

This is fanboyism talking. Were you at the Chicago show when they filmed it for the DVD?

Yes. They taped two or three nights and it was the last night of taping that was one of those magic shows . . . Adam is the one who’s talked about this, that when the Spirit’s in the room you can feel it. Well, the Spirit was in the room that night. It was amazing. It was an incredible show, which has a lot to do with the band and also has a lot to do with what’s happening in the house. It was one of those shows where it was like church … well, like how church is supposed to be. That was a good show.

Did you have any future plans or any other projects in the works?

Yes, but if I told you I’d have to shoot you. There’s more to come. Inshallah, as my Muslim friends would say … God willing.

2006.07
Meet Lies Rosema. She loves gymnastics, designing websites, and of course, U2. She recently graduated from Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where she obtained a degree in business communications, with a minor in Third World development studies. Calvin College is a school fully enriched in the Christian tradition of justice, compassion and discipline and inspires its students to make this world a better place.

It was because of her studies that Rosema was able to visit the African nation of Tanzania in January 2005. This came about through a course she took in college called “The Church’s Influence on Development in Tanzania.” The main objective of the course was to learn how development within Tanzania was being facilitated though the church, also known as Christian non-governmental organizations (NGOs). Students who take this course broaden the scope of their learning by visiting rural villages in Tanzania and maintaining a journal reflecting on their learning objectives and experiences from different perspectives including historical, economical, societal and political.

Unlike other countries, there’s no separation of church and state in Tanzania. It is important to study NGOs because they’re funded by the Tanzanian government and church-based groups have been very effective in distributing aid, especially in rural areas. Therefore, Tanzania’s government will give money and resources to Christian social organizations.

(Rosema with fellow student with singer Deo in Kigarama. Deo’s singing group gave the t-shirts as a gift.)

Rosema’s college course and experience in Tanzania was life-changing and has given her some interesting and thought-provoking ideas on key issues facing Africa and what we can do to work on these issues. Rosema recently shared her perspective with Interference.com.

How did you get involved in Africa and what have you done? Where and when did you do your work?

I first got involved my freshman year of college. I wouldn’t actually call it involved because it was more of a time when I was learning and my interest was growing. I became a huge U2 fan in high school so I was honestly introduced to these issues through Bono. In December, 2002, I traveled with some friends so see Bono speak twice during the Heart of America Tour. For those who may not know, it was a speaking tour organized by DATA and included Bono, Chris Tucker, Ashley Judd, Agnes, a Ugandan HIV-positive nurse, and a few other celebs that made appearances at various stops.

The first one I went to was on World AIDS Day in Lincoln, Nebraska. I got to meet Bono that day and even got a smile from Lance Armstrong but what impacted me the most was the story of the nurse Agnes.

A week later, we went down to a small church in Louisville, Kentucky to hear the same spiel. That time, someone from DATA gave us boxes of postcards that had facts about how many people die from AIDS and how many African children are orphaned.

In January, 2003, I took a class called The Politics of AIDS in Africa. The class was helpful because it went over all the facts you need to know and approached the topic from many angles. The following year, for World AIDS Day, my roommate and I decorated our dorm room door with our DATA postcards and several form letters demanding action from our politicians. We organized an event where students would come to the dorm basement and sign various form letters, find the addresses of their politicians, and we’d mail them off. I also asked the professor with the most experience in these issues come and speak to our dorm. It was hard to really make an impact at school because there are so many social justice clubs at our college already. I began to feel like I was just competing with people who had already established their involvement in the same cause, so I ended up turning over all of my form letters and DATA materials to them. They were able to use our stuff at their existing tables in the school’s cafe/coffee house area.

At the end of my sophomore year, I learned about the opportunity to go to Tanzania to visit NGOs and study development. I pretty much decided immediately that I was going. We left on January 3, 2005 and stayed for a month. We basically moved west to east across northern Tanzania, visiting cities, villages, and rural areas along the way. Some of the programs we visited included rural hospitals with HIV/AIDS programs, schools, homes for unwanted or abused street children, orphanages, and social services organizations. We also met with politicians, religious leaders, leaders of the various organizations, and health experts. And of course, you can’t go to Africa for a month without visiting a Masaai village and going on an animal safari.

(Masaai children)

Since I’ve been back, I’ve kind of been in limbo. The hardest part about the trip was that while we were there we saw a lot of poverty, pain, and suffering. Once we got back, we were thrown into our normal lives, starting classes almost immediately. To this day, I feel like I’ve never completely processed the trip and have yet to sort things out emotionally. There is some culture shock when you first arrive, not near as much as I’d anticipated, but returning is really the hardest part.

How has your personal experiences with Africa altered your perspective?

My personal experience affected me a lot. It didn’t happen so much while I was there, but looking back, still trying to make sense of it all, a lot of my perspectives have changed. I think before I went, I sort of had that attitude that was prevalent during the 1980s, like I was all excited to go and help poor, hopeless, suffering people and stuff like that. I was much more focused on people. I think it was an emotional—maybe even uninformed—reaction to what I’d learn and seen on TV and such. Now, I’ve come to realize that the people there are so strong and beautiful. If anything, we in the west could learn a lot from them.

They should be sending their missionaries over here. My focus has shifted away from giving aid to considering ways that would allow for people to help themselves. Donating money and aid is very honorable and genuinely compassionate, but in the long-term, that’s not what East Africa wants or needs. Business investment, being involved in global trade markets, debt relief and addressing these types of issues, starting at a grassroots level, are really what I feel is most important at this time.

What are the key issues facing Africa and what are the stumbling blocks in solving them? What do you believe should be done to get these problems solved or at least alleviated?

I’m going to answer this question based on my experience in Africa, mainly because I did horrible in my economics classes and found very little of it was actually relevant to their organizations anyway. If I had to use a few words to describe the main problems we saw in East Africa, they would be a lack of health care, education, and infrastructure. We spent some time at a Lutheran conference center in Moshi listening to lectures from health experts. The most significant thing I remember is a doctor telling us that in Tanzania, there is one doctor for every 200,000 people. Think of Richmond, Virginia, or Birmingham, Alabama, with roughly one doctor for everyone in the entire city. We also made a stop a Bukumbi Hospital, a hospital in a rural area with a higher rate of HIV infection. The entire hospital consisted of a few nurses and a surgeon. Can you even imagine a hospital without a general physician, anesthesiologist, oncologist, etc.? Our doctor-lecturer explained that most of the young Tanzanian doctors leave the country because of a lack of a health care system and better employment opportunities in Europe or the States. It creates a vicious cycle because no doctors want to work understaffed with no funding and no medical equipment, but the situation can hardly improve unless the government can find a way to keep doctors from going to practice elsewhere.

As for education, we did not spend as much time studying this issue, but for me it’s an obvious one. Say you live in America and when you’re five, in school they teach you the academic materials, but also things like how to call 911, what your phone number is, stuff that doesn’t seem relevant to a five year old but it can save someone’s life.

In East Africa, a young child going to school and learning that boiling water is good, sleeping with a mosquito net is good, and not using grass full of harmful parasites as sitting mats is good has the potential to save many lives. Stats show that education decreased the likelihood of HIV infection. Beyond saving lives, education opens up business and trade opportunities so that African economies can strengthen from within, rather than be dependent on First World aid. Lastly, I’d like to mention infrastructure because this was an issue that never crossed my mind until I was in Africa. I suppose it is indicative of the economy as a whole, but a lack of infrastructure specifically creates enormous problems with effective distribution of aid.

I’ve told this story several times, but I’ll use it again hear because this is where I really learned a lot. Halfway through our trip we visited individuals living in very rural areas who were either suffering from HIV or who were orphaned because of HIV. We met one man, Peter, who has had HIV since 1991. For 10 years his condition deteriorated because he did not have access to medication. In 2001, Bukumbi Hospital organized an HIV/AIDS program in this rural area and was finally able to reach Peter. The saddest part is Peter was eligible for free medications provided by the government the entire time. However, he did not own a car or a bicycle, the road near his hut is virtually impassable (not an enjoyable bus ride, let me tell you) and his condition left him unable to walk miles and miles for treatment. It wasn’t until a group of religious volunteers spread into his region that he was able to receive what was accessible to him all along.

I think this story illustrates the large, but often unnoticed gap that exists between donating aid and actually helping people. Bags of grain and food have literally rotted because they are dropped without consideration for how people will actually access the food. I could’ve given all of my pocket money to Peter but there was no store nearby and even if there was, he had no way to get there.

I don’t think there’s one big fat solution to all of these problems, but I think in order to appropriately take them into account, there needs to be a grassroots movement that is based on the perspective of the local people, not how people in the west would have things done. For example, going back to Peter, like I said I could’ve given him all my money. My friends would probably say that was a very nice thing to do to help out. But like I said, Peter can’t even use money because there’s nowhere to buy things. Instead, the religious group that began assisting Peter with treatment also provided him with one goat. From this one goat he is able to get milk and breed his goat with a neighbor’s goat. Together, they can sell or trade their goats, thus supporting themselves and contributing to the local economy at the most basic level.

Education is a good example, too. Some people and organizations insist on supporting abstinence-only sex education in African schools. Not only is this detrimental because it creates a lack of proper sex and hygiene education, it completely ignores even simpler, less controversial practices that could be taught, like substituting one type of grass for another when making mattresses, because grass A contains parasites that carry diseases. As for health care, I’ve found several examples of the amazing benefits of providing resources so that Africans can start by educating themselves about health and hygiene. For example, there is a women’s group whose members walk into beer houses and ride on buses of working men passing out condoms. It’s much more effective when the men hear, “My husband and I uses these now and don’t have HIV. Please take several,” than when a westerner comes over and starts preaching about abstinence and how they should be doing this and this and are terrible people for doing this and that.

I don’t feel like I’ve adequately answered this question but it’s something I still think about on a daily basis. Overall, I hope to see more consideration for using the communicative styles and appealing to cultural norms of whichever local culture one is dealing with.

You’ve mentioned before that celebrities don’t always know what’s happening “on the ground” when it comes to Africa. What do you suggest people do to find out what’s happening “on the ground”?

Well, the best way would be to spend 48 hours with a local household. Swatting cockroaches, showering with a liter of bad water, sitting in a hut built with cow dung barely able to breath because it’s 100 degrees outside and inside there is a fire and no smoke hole, thinning the soup so there’s enough for each child, etc. —just one or two days like that will shake you forever.

Of course, not everyone has the luxury of experiencing this life firsthand. One thing that has helped me is reading smaller publications of organizations that are involved in grassroots programs. There are plenty of articles and reports put out by or about the major government organizations, but it gets so overwhelming [that] it’s almost desensitizing. People become statistics, statistics that are actually quite arbitrary when you have no first-hand experience to relate them to. Recently, I was sitting in our economics department between classes and found a newsletter on the floor. It was published by an organization where people from First World countries go as individuals to Third World countries and establish small but profitable businesses.

One example was a man went to somewhere in Central American and started a bakery that uses only locally grown ingredients. I recently realized that I’ve learned a lot more from reading stories like these than, say, studying the latest edition of the Human Development Index. Not just because you can see how issues relate to names and faces, but also because a lot of time there is a surprising amount of uplifting information. I like to read through the news section on the African Well Fund site or look at the Oxfam picture gallery. It kind of recharges you to see that small things are actually saving lives and putting smiles on kids’ faces.

Besides getting educated about the issues regarding Africa, what else can we do concretely to help Africa?

As you said, getting educated is the first step. There are so many myths and misinformation that still circulates even among people we elect as political, spiritual and intellectual leaders. After that, you’ve got to find ways to really make these issues a priority in your life, especially when it comes to political decisions and voting. I think it’s important to personalize these issues because otherwise people are nothing more than numbers and statistics and we become apathetic or desensitized.

I don’t want to get too into detail, because the level of involvement and commitment depends entirely on each individual. Not everyone has the opportunity or the financial resources to actually spend time in Africa. Also, I don’t think it’s fair to say one rich person who gives $10,000 to Africa but never goes there or gets any more involved as an activist, and another rich person who never gives any money but does go there and is an activist are not genuinely committed to these issues.

Try to think about what you have, what you’re good at, and what you enjoy doing and how that can factor in. For example, I have a degree in business communications and I enjoy making websites so I’m offering my services to non-profit organizations and hope to start gathering donated computers and parts to donate to schools and organizations in East Africa. My experience in Tanzania also brought me to realize that even though people have perfectly good intentions going on volunteer or mission trips to Africa isn’t always the best way to help. Often, these trips are short. I consider anything less than six months short because it takes one to two years to truly become acclimated to a new culture and resources are wasted by continually having to start over with training new volunteers. I was originally planning to go to Uganda for a month and volunteer at an AIDS clinic but when the Tanzania opportunity came up, I felt it would be better because our purpose was studying development and we were able to learn a lot hands-on instead of spending the entire month in one place and then having to leave just as we get settled in.

I encourage people to do some research on existing organizations that have grassroots programs and find ways to support them. For example, I think the African Well Fund is an amazing organization. I mean, who doesn’t deserve clean water? Also, if instead of donating money, you’d like to give an actual gift and know where it’s going, the Christian Reformed World Relief Committee has an online gift catalog where you can select items to give to certain countries. You can donate drought resistant seed for only 45 cents. It’s a great way to get young kids involved because there are things affordable even to a child with some pocket money.

Do you have any future plans regarding Africa? What else would you like to do?

Yes, I can’t wait to go back. I’m interested in going back long-term, at least a year. I’m not interested in missions, but I’d love to live and work there, either for a well-established NGO or a local business. I’ve looked into a few programs and the one my fiancé and I are most interested in requires that you be married for at least 12 months before you apply, so we’re going to keep this possibility open.

As far things I can do here in the States, I mentioned earlier I’d like to start accumulating computers and other technology since I currently work as a computer technician and come across unwanted equipment that is usable. While we were in Tanzania, we visited a brand new school that had several donated computers but the computers were probably 10-15 years old and, in my mind, hardly worth using. I remember thinking that I throw better computers in the trash on a daily basis, so there’s got to be a simple way to put these to use. I’d also like to setup a program where students can donate used textbooks. Many of the schools and universities have no books and even if the students have to share, they expressed great appreciation for these resources we often take for granted (or complain about having to purchase) here in the west. The professors that lead my trip to Tanzania are native Africans and have many, many connections in every country in Africa, so they are already bringing computers and books over every few years and I think it would be really cool to expand on this and get more people involved.

You mentioned you recently finished up school. What was your major and what do you want to do now that you’ve graduated?

I just graduated in May with a BA in business communications. I also took several classes that applied towards a Third World development studies minor but I don’t officially have this minor since I actually took a more difficult set of economics courses required for the business degree. This summer, I will continue to work my job of the past four years as a help desk computer technician. In September I’m getting married and hopefully moving to Florida. I’m interested in jobs that involved working with computers and people, like training employees how to use a certain piece of company software. I would love to work for a non-profit but it’s hard to find a job like that which will support a young family. Like I said earlier, we are also interested in moving to Africa. My real passion in life is animals and my dream job is to work at the cheetah sanctuary in Namibia.

To learn more about Lies Rosema’ experiences in Africa, please click here.

Many thanks to Rosema for taking the time to answer our questions.

Inspired by the good U2 has done in the world, Interference.com is looking to profile people within the U2 fan community who are doing their part to make the world a better place. If you know someone whose work and cause deserve a little attention, please e-mail carrie@interference.com or devlin@interference.com.

There exists a three-dimensional online world called Second Life, or SL for short. When I say world, I mean world, because it contains people, real estate, charities, stores, schools, churches, currency and everything else you can think of.

The whole idea of Second Life deserves an entirely separate explanation. To kick off this piece, however, we’ll focus on just one part: creating an online persona in Second Life.
You see, in Second Life, you get to be whoever you want to be. Sort of like when you were little, and imaginative.

So, if you were to join Second Life, who would you pick to be your online persona? Well, Bono, of course—the biggest rock star in the world. Then, naturally, you’d find the virtual Edge, Adam, Larry and complete the band. Then you’d find some stage designers, lighting technicians and security guards, perform some virtual concerts, and you’d create something called U2 in SL.

Interference.com caught up with DarkDharma Daguerre, an avatar (caricature) creator within SL who also happens to be one of the creators of U2 in SL. DarkDharma told Interference.com more about the virtual concerts, the real-life interview with MTV and interesting spots in Second Life.

Many fans dream of being Bono, or Edge, or any rock star. Have you pulled
it off?

We think we’ve virtually pulled it off in grand style. We do it because we are passionate about U2 and their music, but most importantly, to further the issues we believe in and that the real band represents to a virtual world of 315,000 real people from all over the world. When we put on a concert, it’s really a big production with lots of elements involved. Production scripts are handed out; backdrops are synced to the set list. Band
rehearsals are scheduled. Every attention is paid to detail—the band’s costumes, sets—virtual Bono even has a virtual green Irish Falcon Gretsch guitar. In fact, the role player who runs the virtual Mr. B tells us that it’s a huge adrenaline rush being on stage and performing, much like he would imagine being on a real concert stage. Several of the U2inSL role players tell us they get stage jitters before performances, and it takes them hours to come down to earth afterwards—much like their real world counterparts. Before the virtual performances begin, the crowd is buzzing for the show to start. Like the electric crowds found at a real U2 concert, it really helps that the Second Life concert goers get into the role play and have a lot of fun.

Before we go much further, can you bring back ZooTV?

We bet you didn’t think the answer would be yes. We are thinking about bringing back different concert eras. We’ve also been asked about bringing back Red Rocks. Anything is definitely possible. Sets, equipment, avatars, etc., just need to be created to coincide with whatever tour era we would be replicating. Eventually, this may be done. Wouldn’t that be a blast?

Aside from your band, what is the most interesting thing you’ve encountered in SL? Most interesting place?

The most interesting thing in Second Life is that literally everything exists there that can be found in the real world, as well as anything else that can be imagined and not found in the real world. The possibilities are infinite, so it would be tough to pinpoint one other interesting thing. But here are a few interesting thoughts: In SL, people can marry, complete with the whole-nine-yards white-gown wedding, get pregnant and have families. They can also choose to be a furry animal, a dragon or whatever their imagination can dream up.

Are you concerned with legal backlash from U2? How did you get the audio
streams? What’s Second Life creator Linden Labs’ position on all of this?

Really, what we do is not much different than dressing up in a Halloween costume and pretending to be a favorite character. However, so people won’t be mislead and think we’re the real deal, at every concert and event, we prominently post a big sign with a disclaimer that reads, "U2inSL is a role-playing group that exists in support of the One Campaign, Make Poverty History, African Well Fund, Music Rising and others. No money is being made. We are not affiliated with the real U2. U2 is a registered trademark owned by U2. Bono is a registered trademark owned by Bono/Paul Hewson. All rights reserved. No infringement is intended."

We have been attempting to contact Principle Management since the beginning of our Second Life project in mid-2005 but apparently they are a tough organization from that to elicit a response in certain matters. We have phoned, faxed, e-mailed. We have spoken directly with people in their offices who have asked us to forward material—that we’ve done. We’re still waiting to get any sort of response from their organization. We think U2 would love what we do. We do it for no money; we don’t claim to be them, merely to be role playing them, and to support the urgent issues that the real world band supports. In fact, as part of Bono’s wishes for acceptance of the 2004 TED award, he stated, "I wish to tell people one billion times about One …" The TED organization went on to state that what is needed are, "Offers of creative help to adapt the message to different media.” We believe we are providing a form of "creative help" by adapting and spreading the word about One to a very different sort of digital media: a thriving 3-D metaverse with over 315,000 inhabitants.

Our concert streams are obtained online as torrent files. They are streams of actual concerts recorded at the events by fans such as ourselves. We do not sell or make any money from these files.

Linden Labs’ position on all of this so far has been positive as what we do provides a ton of quality content while, at the same time, raising awareness for the urgent issues that we and the real world band support. About six months ago, Linden Labs suggested to us that we should clarify and revise our disclaimer. We have done that so there will be no mistake about who or what we represent and to strongly point out that no infringement is intended. Our current disclaimer is included in every event listing and on every poster or public piece of information we put out so there can be no mistake about whom we are and our intentions.

How do you "perform" the concerts? Is the performer’s movement pre-programmed, or done "live"?

All avatars in Second Life use animations to move, from lifting an arm a certain way to holding a mic, etc., all moves involve animations. That being said, the U2inSL role players do perform "live" and have freewill to move about as they choose. Think of it the same as moving around in the real world except in order to lift an arm, which we do automatically in the real world, we need to click an animation to do so in Second Life. All the U2inSL role players have specialty animations for their characters that they run
randomly at any time to provide realistic moves to go along with the song or whatever is happening on the stream at the moment.

However, it’s not as easy as it may sound being on stage and running animations during a concert, as there are multi faceted things to focus on all happening at once. For instance, at any given moment during a concert, virtual Bono is quadruple-tasking, running several interacting animations (moving arms, bending down, opening mouth, walking about), while keeping an eye to the specific song and what’s involved, as well as utilizing whatever props (guitar, tambourine, etc.) and, at the same time, keeping track of making wardrobe changes (he makes about four to five wardrobe changes during a concert all done while he is performing and moving about).

What has been the reaction to U2inSL outside of SL?

When people understand what it is and what is involved, they have been amazed. When they don’t, they are like, "What’s that about?" Often we find when speaking about our endeavor to folks in our first lives, an example dialogue we may hear goes like this: "You mean you actually move around in there?" Us: "Yes, there are roads, trees, houses, mountains—a whole world." “You mean you can actually do things there?" Us: "Yes, you can do everything there."—and so it goes. Some of us have told our families about it, some have not. Some family members do watch alongside in real world our role players while they are performing virtually.

Since our February 2006 concerts, we have become more widely known on the web, as lots of blogs have picked up the beat on us. And, of course, the fact that we were recently featured on MTV has really raised the awareness bar quite a few notches.

They never sell Bono glasses at the real shows. Can you get them at your
shows?

Although with this project we strongly emphasize that we never sell anything—we do have a virtual swag booth where concert goers can pick up freebies such as One Campaign wristbands, flyers, U2inSL T-shirts, buttons, posters, etc. We haven’t yet made Bono glasses available but that’s a great idea, we’ll work on it.

Has your presence gained fans for U2, and/or support for the One
organization? Have you talked to the One organization?

Most definitely our presence in Second Life has gained fans not only for U2 and their music but also for the One Campaign, Make Poverty History, Music Rising, African Well Fund—all the causes that are featured at our virtual gigs and events. Because of our endeavor, we know of many inworld people who have actually gone on to attend their first real-world U2 concerts and become permanent new fans.

As we mentioned above, besides concerts, we hold One Campaign rallies that are extremely well attended. Last year at the start of this endeavor in SL, we specifically wrote to many of the heads of the One Campaign as well as all the organizations and fan sites of that we were aware to announce what we were doing in Second Life. Although we do go to great pains to clearly explain to the non-VR-aware person or organization what we do, generally, we’ve found it appears difficult to understand unless there is a certain awareness and knowledge of 3-D worlds.

Do you plan to authentically recreate U2 shows or mix in new ideas?

So far, for concerts, we’ve strived for authenticity as we are role-playing the real world guys. Part of the fun is seeing how well we can replicate things. The new ideas come in the form of whatever different elements are introduced in whatever concert stream we may be using at the time. For example, when U2inSL played in virtual Dublin, we used the June 25, 2005, Croke Park, Dublin stream. During that concert, a guy named Matt from Canada came on stage to play “Party Girl” with the band and we replicated that whole experience virtually.

New ideas have more come into play with the virtual One Campaign rally events. During these rallies, U2inSL performs several tunes, coupled with One Campaign podcast messages as well as photos of Bono’s recent African trip that the virtual Bono "narrates." This is all put together in our own way as a new idea on how to get the message across. At the event there are banners, awareness signs and many links to read more about and sign up to the One Campaign. It certainly makes for a unique experience and one that really motivates people to be aware of and lend their support to the urgent
situation.

U2inSL has its own lighting experts, PR people and security. How did
you find these folks?

Some of the players came with us from another virtual world called There. We came into Second Life some earlier, some later, in 2004. Others involved are good friends we have made in Second Life with various skills they lend to the production. Our techno lighting wiz, stage builder, stage manager, Demian Caldera, has been with us since our There days. He is in charge of the production setup and handles the backdrop scheme and spotlights during the concerts. Nyna Slate, our security head, and also great PR person, has honed her skills over the past year to now find herself to be a sought-after expert at inworld event security. On occasion now, she consults with other groups regarding such matters.

The idea of virtually recreating U2 started in There where we actually held the first virtual events as "U2 in There.” However, There was extremely limited as to creativity allowed and what we could accomplish, so when we emigrated to Second Life in 2004, the seed of the idea came with us and, eventually, re-blossomed. However, it wasn’t until about six months later, fall 2004, when we actually started to get the virtual U2 idea rolling once again. Things very slowly progressed from that time until June 2005 when we held our first U2inSL meet-and-greet. It takes a certain passionate dedication to pull off a project such as this.

What’s next for U2inSL?

We love U2 and we plan to keep on doing what we’re doing—role-playing concerts and One Campaign rallies in support of the real world band’s issues that we wholeheartedly embrace. One thing we strive for in our virtual performances is constant improvement in animations, performance, stage set, avatar appearance—everything about the production is always looking to be improved upon.

What we hope for is that the real band will get to know us and love what we do in support of the very important real world issues we put forth to the virtual world. And we’d love for the real Bono, Edge, Adam and Larry to someday get to know about their virtual personas and maybe decide to take them for a spin inworld. Wouldn’t that be the ultimate?

You can get more information about U2 in Second Life through MTV.com here and here. Check out Second Life here.

Many thanks to DarkDharma Daguerre for taking time for this article.

Salvatore Petronella and Christopher Sorgie have been best friends since high school, bonded by a shared love of U2. Like most U2 fans, the friends often debated the merits of various U2 songs. What sets Petronella and Sorgie (better known as Sal and Sorge) apart is they created a system to determine what the best U2 songs are.

This five-category, "scientific" system is spelled out in the new book "U2itude: The Ultimate Handbook for U2 Fans." In it, Sal and Sorge methodically and objectively rate each U2 song, sometimes with surprising results. The pairs also created playlists and listed their own personal top 10s.

Interference.com recently spoke with the authors and found out about U2itude, the compass and getting the guys in U2 to rank their own songs.

How long have you been U2 fans?

Sal: I’ve been a U2 fan since high school. It’s kind of in the book, since 1983, as soon as I heard "New Year’s Day," that’s when I became a U2 fan.

Sorge: Sal and I met in high school kind of over and through U2. We both became fans around the same time and used to sing and hum U2 songs in a couple of classes we had together. It’s been a friendship ever since, really.

Sal: It was sorted of like I think one of us heard the other singing U2 and said, "Wait a minute, is that U2? You know who they are?" "Yeah, they’re your favorite band." "They’re your favorite band? They’re my favorite band." That’s how it all began.

Sorge: If you had a copy of our high school yearbook, you would see Sal was the "U" and I was the "2" in the group shot of the 600 of us in front of the school.

What do you think it was about U2’s music that drew you to it originally?

Sorge: The music just got inside my soul, just that when you heard "War" and you heard that drumbeat and this electrifying guitar and Bono’s voice, it was something new, something fresh, something exciting and it was, like we say, kind of like love at first listen. We just fell in love with it, at least I did.

What do you think has maintained that passion for the band?

Sorge: Every song, every album has kind of marked a point in my life. I can go back through my high school years to my college years to my working life, my marriage; U2 has been there every step of the way. My wife and I, our first dance was to "All I Want Is You," "Mysterious Ways" was playing in the hospital with my first daughter. They’ve been there, kind of like the soundtrack of our lives. It’s just been there every step of the way, through ups and downs, through tears, through joys, happy times, sad times. If there’s a mood you’re in, there’s a U2 song for it.

Sal: I think the key has also been what we mention in the book, it’s the staying power, that they continue to produce quality music and that’s what’s kept it going all these years. At some point they could have turned into a mediocre band and not given 100 percent and not made soul music but they continue to deliver and that’s what’s kept it alive for me, also.

Sal holds the U and Sorge holds the 2 in their senior class high school yearbook photo.

As you’re talking about going through the band in different steps of your life, do you feel connected to the guys individually because you were growing up around the same time they were growing up, going through all these things, getting married, having kids?

Sal: I think we’re all on our own spiritual journey and I feel, at some level, a kind of connectedness to Bono. I know that’s kind of crazy but what I’ve noticed is, for example, for a while I was very much into Charles Bukowski’s poetry and some of the films of Wim Wenders, at the same time or later on I noticed that U2 was making references to Charles Bukowski on the "Pop" album and I just thought, wow, this is really interesting because we’ve never met but somehow I’m reading the same thing that Bono’s reading and I’m being influenced by the same artists that he’s reading. That’s just one of those strange things, connectedness that I’ve kind of discovered. I hadn’t thought about how their lives had been kind of, I guess they did get married around the same time, before us, but I hadn’t really thought of that.

Where did you guys come up with the term U2itude?

Sal: I think I was probably driving home from work, or in the shower. I guess U2itude just means to me, it’s kind of the attitude, it’s really hard to explain. From a writing standpoint it just clicked, it was one of those epiphanies.

Sorge: It’s a play on attitude but when we said it, it was like, "That’s it, that’s what this book is about." It’s kind of neat, it’s kind of fun, the book has an attitude, has a certain attitude about it.

How did you guys get the idea to get together, sit down and write a U2 book?

Sal: I guess from a couple of different levels. It’s always been my dream to be a published author and one thing about me when I write, I usually listen to music while I’m writing. One night my wife had noticed it and said, "How do you do it? How do you write and concentrate with music in headphones in your ear?" I had always known that music moved me and I would listen, sometimes if I was working on a piece I would listen to the same song over and over. Then I thought, "This is the music that I’m listening to, why not write about the music that inspires me the most?" That’s kind of where the idea came to me.

Sorge: To be very specific, Sal and I always, being friends, we never could agree on what our favorite U2 song was. The book was really a way for us to settle our debate. So we said, "What are the top 10 U2 songs?" You have "I Will Follow," "I Still Haven’t Found," all these great songs but there needed to be some criteria, some, what we called, scientific rating system to determine once and for all what are the best U2 songs. We got together one night and said it’s about the music and it’s about the energy and then there’s a message, the lyrics, then this kind of intangible that pulls it all together, which we called U2itude. If you rated every song on those five criteria, you would then have some objective measurement to say, you know what, this song has it all—it’s a perfect five on music, a perfect five on energy, and across the board. Thus we came up with this ranking system and, like we say, the compass does not lie. If you really sit down and put this to the test, you sit down and you judge the songs on these five criteria, you do, we feel, come up with somewhat of an objective measurement of what the best U2 songs are.

It’s helped us in some ways. We still debate it because we’re not claiming to be right, it’s our opinion, but you do it, you sit down with a pen and pencil and rank them. We think most people will rank them kind of similarly but if they don’t, that’s OK. It’s how it relates to you and your life and your personal experiences.

Sal: That’s why we included our own personal favorites lists, too, because we’re not claiming to be right. We show that even though "Bad," for example, we rated as the No. 1 U2 song of all time, it doesn’t show up on our personal favorite lists. That doesn’t mean that we don’t love the song but it’s not my personal favorite but according to our system, and the compass doesn’t lie, that is the best U2 song of all time. That’s why we give space for people to score along as well because your best song might be something else but we thought it was a really fun way for people to listen with a new ear. How many listen to just the music or tap into just the energy of each song?

How long did it take you, after creating this system, to go through and score each song?

Sorge: We started writing after "All That You Can’t Leave Behind." It’s not like we sat down every night and did it. If added up the total hours, I wonder how many hours that would be Sal?

Sal: We wrote it in between raising our kids and going on with our lives, we didn’t sit down and block out a month of time. It’s been since right after "All That You Can’t Leave Behind" came out when we started writing it, until now.

Sorge: If you compressed the time, it took us a year to write the book, over a five-year period.

How long would you spend on each individual song?

Sorge: Some songs we’d have to play two or three or four times. First you listen and you listen to the music and, "What’s the lyrics? What’s he saying? What’s the message of the song?"

Sal: That was one of the hardest things but we had a blast doing that. We would debate back and forth on almost every single song, I don’t think we ever agreed totally. And then we would really analyze it and say, "OK, let’s listen to the lyrics," or, "Why do you score it a five, Chris? Why am I scoring it a four?" and then we would zone in on those areas and then we’d say, "Yeah, you’re right, it’s a four or five on music or lyrics."

Sorge: We scored them individually and then debated them.

Sal: That’s how we went about it. We scored each album. We would say, "By Tuesday we have to score ‘The Joshua Tree’" and then we’d come together and we’d go over the songs. And we went rating by rating, too, we didn’t go by total score, so we went line by line. "You came up with a 20, I came up with a 20, but how did you get to a 20?" That was a blast.

Sorge: We agreed as much as we disagreed, I think.

What did your wives and children and family and friends think about all this time that you were pouring into analyzing all of these U2 songs, creating this system and everything?

Sorge: Everyone, and we know a lot of U2 fans, both diehards and nuts like us and other more casual fans, everybody has responded very favorably to this idea. Our friends and family couldn’t wait to get their hands on the book. We’ve shared with them bits and pieces over the time and they’ve said, "’I Will Follow,’ how can that not be a top 10 song?" Total support from my wife, I’m sure Sal will say the same, and everybody’s been, "What a cool idea, I think I would love that book. I would buy that for a U2 fan. I know U2 fans who would love that book." We’re excited about the reaction that we’ve gotten.

Sal: It has been support and I think another key part of that has been the passion that Chris and I have always brought to U2. We mentioned in the book, when people think of us, they think of U2, it’s been going on for 20-plus years. That just made it a perfect fit, too. Like, "Yeah, you guys should be writing a book about U2."

As you were going through and rating, what was the most surprising final score that you came up with? Like a song that rated way higher or way lower than you originally thought it would.

Sorge: I think what will be surprising to reader, we come back to this "I Will Follow" example. "I Will Follow," we have it in the book as the No. 1 U2 anthem of all time, I don’t think anybody would ever argue with that, but our score from "I Will Follow" was a four, three, three, five, five—four on music, it’s great music but the lyrics and the message, this was early U2, Bono wasn’t at his best vocally and he hadn’t matured as a writer. So while those threes are good scores, the total score is a 20, which ranks it No. 36 out of 50, there are 35 better songs than "I Will Follow" but you cannot deny that "I Will Follow" is one of the all-time most popular U2 songs. I think that’s the one where people say, "Where’s ‘I Will Follow’ on your list?" It’s not in the top 10, I’m sorry, but the compass doesn’t lie.

Sal: We even went back to it, after our high school reunion we said maybe Larry is right, our friend Larry, a U2 fan, and we looked at it again but we tried to stay true to the compass and we tried to stay true to this method of scoring and we tried to keep our emotions out of it in order to really come up with this objective list of the best songs.

Sorge: Does it get a five for U2itude? Absolutely. Does it get a five for energy? Absolutely. It’s a great song, a 20 is a great score by this system, it’s a solid number.

Were there any moments or pet songs that you just, you knew that it was coming out to maybe be a three in one area?

Sorge: There are songs that we fought over. Two classics are "Walk On" and "The Fly."

Sal: I think those two were the key ones that we really, I was real passionate about "The Fly" and Chris was real passionate about "Walk On." Both of us probably over-scored them originally and then we just went back and forth on them and I think sometimes we tried to sell each other on our ideas and then, in the end, on "The Fly" in particularly, we finally decided that, you know what, this really is a perfect score, you can’t deny. If we stay true to the compass, it gets a five on every category. Those are the two that stuck out, I think.

It was great reading this book and it felt like coming in on a conversation that any group of U2 fans would have sitting together before a show, after a show. As you’re trying to have this scientific scoring method, it’s really hard to take out all the personal moments, especially with a group like U2. Was that coming into your minds at all, like, "This is the song that they played at my prom or my wedding," or, "Remember that road trip we took," or anything like that? How did you keep yourselves from being clouded by your personal connections to the songs?

Sal: I think we made a real conscious effort to do that and that’s why we’re careful to explain in the book [that] we’re not claiming to be right about the songs. We used the studio versions, that was a key to our ratings also because, as you know, U2 is the live experience it’s almost like a religious experience. A song like "Gloria," for example, maybe would score higher if you used a live version of it but we stayed true to the compass and to this rating system in order to force ourselves not to let our emotions affect the scoring and that’s why we included our personal favorite lists.

Sorge: That’s exactly right. That’s why when you read our top 10 lists there’s only one that’s common between the two of us, "Where the Streets Have No Name." Hands down the song that, for me, when they play that live, the Garden is rocking and the crowd is going nutso—how can that not be U2’s No. 1 song? That’s the song for me live. That’s why we felt so passionate about including our top 10 lists and writing something special about those songs for each one of us.

Sal: Everyone is going to score it differently, every fan will score their songs differently and that’s why, again, this is according to our rating and that’s why we give you space to score along. We had a ball doing this, even just sitting around after the book was done, we sat around in my living room with our wives and we were going over the different songs, the top 10 best, the top 10 worst, and it was just so much fun, just kind of laughing about the process and how each one of us would score it. We just think U2 fans will enjoy the experience.

Now that the book is finished and you’ve seen it in print, are there any scores that you wish you could take back?

Sorge: No, I don’t think so.

Sal: I don’t think so either. We deliberated over every song. I think what happened is the book started to take on its own life. The other side of that is the scores will probably change over time. If we go back and rescore the songs in five years, well, who knows where we’ll be in our lives and how a song might take on a different meaning over time?

The friends celebrate the publication of "U2itude."

How difficult was it to choose your own personal top 10 lists?

Sal: That’s how the book started because that has been the hardest thing for us all along is deciding on your top 10 favorites. It’s almost an impossible thing to do. That’s really genesis of the book is coming up with own top 10 favorite U2 lists.

Sorge: I think we both were able to get the 25 songs but what’s the order of the 25 songs? How do you get it from 25 to 15? Then, as Sal says in the book, it becomes the need factor—which songs do you need—and that’s ultimately how we decided the ones that made our lists. It’s like, "I have to have this song. I can’t go on with my life without having that song."

In the book you also talk about how now that you do have children that you’re raising them up on U2. How important is it for you to have your children know U2, appreciate the band, be fans?

Sorge: I don’t know if important is the right word. We’re excited for them to be excited about the band, they are. When a U2 song comes on in the car, they know and they listen. "Turn it up, Dad." It’s so cool. Or to be at a family party, "Julia, go request ‘Mysterious Ways’ so we can dance. This is the song you were born to, this is our song." My dream is one day when she gets married that she’ll select "Sweetest Thing" or "Mysterious Ways" as our father-daughter dance. It’s those kinds of continuing progressions that I know I look forward to. U2 will always be there. The kids, mine are seven, five and three, and they’re U2 fans.

Sal: As Chris said, it’s not as important but it would great. I hope that my kids enjoy the band as much as I do. I think the key is that our passion is contagious. It’s hard being in a house with Sal Petronella and not liking U2. I’m not forcing it on my kids but I think my passion for the band is just contagious because I love this stuff.

Sorge: It’s like my kids are also Mets fans and Sal’s kids are Yankees fans and those things will never change either.

Sal: That we force on them, that’s different.

Now you have your website up explaining this whole idea of "U2itude." Have you started getting feedback from people who have rated the songs themselves based on your system?

Sorge: Yes, quite a few people enter in their top 10 songs and rank their albums and some people provide their comments. There’s no list that’s alike and there are some songs that show up that you wouldn’t expect, some that aren’t even on the top 50 list that other people feel are their favorite songs and that’s the fun of it. Someone ranked "Lemon," "I love ‘Lemon,’" there was a time when I liked "Lemon." We rank it kind of low but there’s a guy out there who had it on his top 10 list.

Talking about songs that you ranked low and disagreements and such, I was kind of surprised at "Miami" being the worst song. Before you came up with this, what was your feeling for "Miami"?

Sal: I guess I felt that the song was kind of weak. The line "Miami/My Mammy," my goodness, what are we doing here guys? Did I know that that would end up being the lowest scoring song? No. I don’t think we knew how any of this would turn out.

Sorge: It wasn’t predetermined but I know there are a few songs that you put that album on and skip, I can’t even listen to that song. We did it the other day, we sat down and listened to the whole song and it was like, "My God, yes, it is the worst song, there’s no doubt about it."

That’s how I feel about "Sweetest Thing."

Sal: This is what we love; we love to hear U2 fans say that. I love to hear U2 fans say, "I totally disagree with you." That’s what’s so fun about this, that’s why "U2itude" has its own life because, absolutely, you love it, that’s fine, we’re not going to argue with you. We keep saying over and over, the compass doesn’t lie, if you score them, you’ll come up with your own score. We’re not claiming to be experts, we didn’t analyze the music, we just went on pure passion for the band and pure reaction on the criteria that we created.

When I went to see U2 in November, my brother and I were eating with some friends of ours, talking about what songs we did and didn’t want to hear and it was that same thing. Someone would say, "I want them to play this." "Oh, not that one, I’d love for them to play this." "That one? You like that one?" No one will ever agree but it was just so fun because it’s like you’re discovering something totally different about a person when you learn that their favorite song is "Lemon."

Sal: My dream is to have people getting together and having little U2itude parties in their house and having a ball with this book just for that reason.

Have you done that, gotten people together to have those kinds of discussions?

Sorge: It’s on the plan. We haven’t done it yet but we’re thinking about doing one at a bookstore.

Sal: For our book launch party we want to have this whole fun scoring session.

Have you passed along the book to Principle Management or the band?

Sorge: There are a number of outlets. We have like three or four different ways where we’re a couple of degrees away from Bono.

Sal: We got to be one degree away from Bono, we think. We did get the manuscript before the book was published in the hands of someone within the inner circle who said, "I think Bono will love this. Have you given it to Bono?" And we said, "We really haven’t had the opportunity." "Why don’t you give it to me? I’ll give it Bono."

Sorge: We don’t know if any of the band members have seen the book but we have, on three different occasions, with people who are connected, closely associated through various means, have tried to give them the manuscript, and we’ll continue to try to do that. One of our dreams, honestly, is to meet them. If the book results in us sitting down and having a Guinness with Bono and The Edge and Larry and Adam and talking about their lists and our book, boy.

Sal: That would be really cool if we could get them to score their songs, their top 10. What’s Adam Clayton’s top 10 favorite U2 songs?

What do you hope to accomplish with this book?

Sal: A couple of things. The main thing is we hope to be able to donate some money to the Global Fund [to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis & Malaria]. If the book really takes off and we’re able to make a really significant contribution, that’s the big goal. Another goal is to meet the band, that’s something we’d like to accomplish. I’d like to check that off on our life’s checklist, "Yeah, met U2."

Sorge: Just to provide a tool, a source for people to continue to debate and discuss the world’s greatest rock ‘n’ roll band, hands down, U2. Here’s another way to talk about the band. We haven’t mentioned it yet but we put together these playlists, which include songs that don’t immediately come to mind, songs for the beach, songs for a road trip, songs for drinking a Guinness. Sometimes you go for "The Joshua Tree" because that’s a great album but there are some great songs on some of the other albums that people sometimes forget about. When you go through those playlists it’s like, "Oh yeah, ‘Exit,’ great song for a guys’ night out. Let’s crank it up and have some fun with it."

It ended up that the No. 1 album based on this system was "How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb." Was that any kind of surprise for you guys?

Sorge: Yeah, I think that was, that an album surpassed the almighty "Joshua Tree." I even got a comment like that yesterday from a friend who got the book and said, "Chris, I don’t know that I agree that ‘How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb’ is better than ‘The Joshua Tree." It’s basically a tie, the scoring is so close and time will tell if it will have the staying power that The Joshua Tree" has. It wasn’t predetermined, it was by the system, by the numbers.

Sal: We really looked at that closely. We went painstakingly over the numbers over and over again to see are we over-scoring, and it just worked out that way.

For more information on "U2itude: The Ultimate Handbook for U2 Fans," visit U2itude.com.

Many thanks to Salvatore Petronella and Christopher Sorgie!

Ed. Note: In light of the release of "Don’t Come Knocking," Interference.com was lucky enough to get two interviews with director Wim Wenders. The first was conducted via e-mail by Contributing Editor Devlin Smith, and focuses on the relationship between music and film. The second, appearing below and conducted in person by staff writer Matt Anderson, discusses the new film as well as the title track Bono and Edge created for it.

"Don’t Come Knocking" reunites German director Wim Wenders with actor and screenwriter Sam Shepard more than 20 years after their collaboration on "Paris, Texas" won Wenders the Palme d’Or at the 1984 Cannes Film Festival.

This time, their story focuses on Howard Spence, a man who’s made a career out of starring in Westerns and avoiding reality. While on the set of his latest cowboy epic, "Phantom of the West," Howard (played by Shepard) decides it’s time to take off, in the middle of shooting the movie, and confront some things that have been bugging him.

His first stop is to visit his mother (played by screen legend Eva Marie Saint), who clues him in about the child he had with a woman in Butte, Montana, many years ago. Paging through his mom’s photo albums and scrapbooks, Howard comes to realize what a confused, manic life he’s led in Hollywood. Money, fame, babes, drugs, assaults, accidents; his has been the perfect life for tabloid fodder.

From there, Howard heads north to Butte to finally clear the air and hone in on his responsibilities.

"Don’t Come Knocking," which refers to a sign in Howard’s on-set trailer, finds Wenders in fine form, once again exploring the rugged, vast, empty terrain of the American West.

In addition to his reunion with Shepard, Wenders once again got the opportunity to work with Bono. Theirs is a collaboration that includes Wenders directing Bono’s screenplay for "The Million Dollar Hotel," as well as U2 supplying musical contributions on Wenders’ movies "Until the End of the World," "Far Away, So Close," and "The End of Violence." Wenders also directed U2’s music video for "Night and Day" from the "Red Hot and Blue" AIDS benefit CD.

Wenders likes to leave room for serendipity and spontaneity while making his movies. This time around, Bono contributed to both of those elements as Wenders related the following story to me about U2’s front man coming through with a song for his friend—a duet with Andrea Corr—at the 11th hour:

"Bono had seen the film in a rough cut, had liked it a lot and—I had not asked him, I knew how busy the man was—had sort of volunteered on his own, ‘Maybe I could write a title song’ because he loved the movie.

So there was this vague hope that maybe eventually we’d have a title song. We finished editing the movie and T-Bone [Burnett] recorded the entire score and soundtrack and everything. We put some other music at the back to just hold the place of our title song, but we never got a title song.

The film was finished, we went to Cannes, we didn’t have a title song. We showed it in Cannes without the U2 song, we had one of T-Bone’s songs at the end and not a title song, so it was just holding the place.

U2 were doing the Vertigo Tour, Bono was involved with Live 8, The One Campaign; if you wanted to reach him he was either talking to Bush in Washington, to Blair in London, to Chirac. I mean, it seemed ridiculous to believe he was going to write a song, let alone record it.

So finally, it came to making the first prints—and they were for Germany and France because the film came out in late August, early September. The producer finally said, ‘Come on, this is a pipe dream. We’re never going to get a U2 song. We have to make prints, we have to make press screenings, we have to start being serious and working.’

So we told the lab, from next Monday on we’re going to make prints. The Friday before, Friday night I got an e-mail with a very long attachment—from Bono. I open it and it was the song, but it was just Bono’s voice and Andrea’s voice and there was a temp track underneath it Edge had done on the computer because they just didn’t have time to record all of it, to polish it.

(Photo credit: Matt Anderson)

So there I was, I had the title song but it was incomplete. So I passed the whole thing on to T-Bone, I was in Berlin, I sent that long attachment to T-Bone with a mail saying, ‘By Monday we need it finished.’ And T-Bone called me, said, ‘Are you nuts? This is Saturday morning here. How do you want me to arrange it, get the musicians, record the music, mix it, and have it back by Monday?’

I said, ‘It’s our only choice.’ Either by Monday we’re going to have the U2 song in—the Bono song, it’s not a U2 song, it’s a Bono song—or not, because it’s our deadline, we have to strike prints."

That Saturday night, T-Bone got his band back together, recreated Edge’s arrangement, recorded the musicians, mixed their track on Sunday, and Monday morning, when Wenders got back in the studio, he had the complete song.

As Wenders summed it up, "It was as narrow as it can get."

The end result of that nail-biting finish is an immaculate little number, a subtle, seductive song more along the lines of "Slow Dancing" or "Falling at Your Feet" than the band’s rockers like "Mysterious Ways." It’s also reminiscent of another Bono/Corr duet, their cover of Ryan Adams’ "When the Stars Go Blue."

It’s a remarkable accomplishment made all the more so by the torrent of activity during which the song was created.

Ed. Note – In light of the release of "Don’t Come Knocking," Interference.com was lucky enough to get two interviews with director Wim Wenders. The first, appearing below, was conducted via e-mail by Contributing Editor Devlin Smith, and focuses on the relationship between music and film. The second, conducted in person by staff writer Matt Anderson, discusses the new film as well as the title track Bono and Edge created for it.

He’s been directing movies for more than 30 years, bringing to the screen nearly two dozen German- and English-language full-length features, including 1984’s "Paris, Texas," written by Sam Shepard, "Wings of Desire" and "The Buena Vista Social Club." He also brought Bono’s "Million Dollar Hotel" to the big screen and transformed the members of U2 into guardian angels for the "Stay (Faraway, So Close!)" video.

This winter marked the release of Wim Wenders’s 22nd feature film, "Don’t Come Knocking." The film is Wenders second collaboration with Shepard and also includes a title song written by Bono and The Edge and sung by Bono and Andrea Corr. U2 had previously brought Wenders the "Until the End of the World" and "Stay (Faraway, So Close)" title tracks, as well as songs for the "Million Dollar Hotel" soundtrack.

Wenders recently answered the following questions for Interference.com, talking about his new film, his relationship with U2 and good film music.

Your latest film "Don’t Come Knocking" marks your second collaboration with actor/screenwriter Sam Shepard. What drew you to this script? Also, what made you want to work with Shepard again?

I was simply drawn to work with Sam again. Our collaboration on "Paris, Texas" had just been perfect, as far as writer/director relations go. In fact it had been too good to be true, so to speak, and we had therefore decided not to touch it for a while. You can only ruin a good thing by repeating it too early or too eagerly. But then we met, by complete accident, at a Lou Reed concert in New York and realized how much time had already passed. A few months later I looked at a treatment I had written, by myself, and it hit me—I knew the best writer in the world for that story and for the place I intended it to happen in. It was a family story, mainly dealing with a lost father and an unknown son, and I wanted to shoot it in Montana.

So I called Sam up. He invited me to come and see him. To tell you the truth, he didn’t like my story all that much, almost nothing of it remained, but that was fine with me. That paper had been not more than a pretext to see Sam and before we knew it, we were already figuring out another character and a whole different approach. And then we started writing "Don’t Come Knocking" together. It took us altogether three and a half years.

This film also reunites you with members of U2. Why did you want to have a Bono/Edge song on this soundtrack? What do you think of the song "Don’t Come Knocking"?

Well, it seemed like wishful thinking for a while, and I hadn’t exactly asked Bono. He had seen an early version of the film and had just mentioned that he thought it would be fun to come up with a title song. I wasn’t sure if that was ever going to happen, after all, U2 were in the middle of an utterly successful and demanding tour, they were involved in Live Aid and The ONE Campaign and what not. So we eventually finished the cut, T Bone Burnett scored the film and when we got it ready for the Cannes Film Festival, we had no Bono and Edge song yet. We put something else under the intended scene and under the credits, but just to hold the place, and kept waiting. Nothing happened. I saw Bono a few times (I saw the Vertigo concert in five different cities and twice at the Madison Square Garden) but he was a bit evasive about the song—yes, he was working on it. I didn’t feel like pressing too hard, after all, the man had a lot on his plate and many much more important issues to handle than a song for a movie.

So finally the day came when we just ran out of time. We had to start striking prints, as the film was going to come out in Germany, Italy and France. So my producer and friend Peter [Schwartzkopff] said, "Wim, this title song is a pipedream. In two weeks we’ll have to deliver a couple of hundred prints. Let’s drop the idea." I asked him for a last leeway, so we set a deadline for a Monday two weeks away. On that day the lab would just start making prints, no matter what.

Those two weeks also went by so I confirmed to Peter to go ahead on Monday. But on the Friday night before, I got an e-mail from Edge with a giant attachment. It took a long time to open it and it was the song. I listened to it, jubilant, and loved it (Bono had mentioned he was considering a duet with Andrea but I had no idea how gorgeous that was going to be). The only drawback, the underlying instrumental music was strictly a temp-track. Edge had laid it down on his computer but they didn’t have the time to record it with the full band, the strings and all. So, on one hand, I had the song and, on the other, I was still light years away and I only had that weekend left. So I sent the attachment on from Berlin to T-Bone in LA and told him that he had basically 48 hours to complete it, record the instruments, arrange and mix it. He wrote me back, "Are you out of your mind?" I answered, "No. We have no other choice!" So T-Bone heroically got all the musicians back together that had worked on the score, including Marc Ribot on guitar and Jim Keltner on drums, and did the impossible. He recorded on Saturday night, mixed it on Sunday and Monday morning, when we entered the studio to put the song into the mix and produce a new optical track, the complete song was in the computer. That night they started making prints. Unbelievable but true.

How does the process of commissioning a soundtrack song work? How involved are you in the creation of the song? Do you specify a scene or feeling you want it to evoke or give the artists free range?

As you see in my above account, there is no rule. Bono and Edge knew the film and knew the parameters. With other people, I would have been much more specific but with these guys, you can trust them blindly.

Why do you think you’ve had such a long, successful working relationship with U2? What is it about the music the band members make that fits so well with your films?

Good question. I’m glad I can’t really answer it. I know from my side that there is just a great affinity to their work, musically and spiritually, and an appreciation of who they are and who they managed to remain in spite of all the success and fame. But I’m also glad that part of that affinity will remain mysterious. Of course, I can’t answer for them what they feel or see in my films. Hey, I’m just glad I know those guys.

How important do you think songs are in expressing the theme of your films?

Utterly important. For many people, that song will constitute their first encounter with the film.

What qualities do successful soundtrack songs have? What are some songs from your own films that you think best fit that criteria?

I can’t find any better examples than a couple of songs that U2 made for my films. The title tracks to both "Until the End of the World" as well as "Faraway, So Close!" were perfect, period. They summed up the climate of the film without spelling the message or the feeling out too clearly. If a song is too much on the nose, that becomes dangerous. It just has to evoke the film and what it is about and it also has to be able to stand on its own. People want to love that song on its own behalf, outside the context of the film.

In addition to working with U2 on your soundtracks, you’ve also directed several videos for the band. Is a video planned for "Don’t Come Knocking"?

No, at least not yet. They need a rest, man.

How are film and video directing similar? How are they different?

In directing a video, you just have to adjust to very different criteria. People who’ll see it will not come to a theater and make a choice and pay for it but they see it by chance, on a music channel or as they zap around on their TV. You have to catch their attention in a highly competitive surrounding. Well, that only works if the song is great in the first place. And if you then find a visually compatible way to translate that song back into images (sometimes with a little help from the film’s imagery, but not too much).

What do you like about directing? What do you think your strengths as a director are?

When I was a very young director, I asked myself that. Can I do this better than anybody else? Or can I only do it as good as many others? And then I realized that if I stuck to my own guns and not tried to imitate any other movies, then there was some work that only I could do. And ever since I tried to remain true to that notion that I’d never start a project that I felt other directors could do better or just as well. This way, I discovered my weaknesses (which I will not confess to you but one of them, for a long time, was certainly my tendency to put too much into each film so they often were just too long. I hope I have that under control now.) and also my strengths. One of them might be a heightened sense of place. Most of my films start out with a desire to discover a certain landscape or a city and find the one story that would have to happen there with a certain necessity. I hate movies that could take place just as well somewhere else. So "Don’t Come Knocking," for instance, just had to be set in this fantastic little town in Montana called Butte. I knew that from the outset.

Do you have any future projects lined up? Do you have any definite plans to work with the guys in U2 again in the near future?

Nothing would be more pleasant than to work with them again but I don’t want to become greedy and stretch my luck, they have already given me so much extraordinary music. I don’t think they collaborated on so many projects with any other director. Right now, I don’t even know what my next film will be. I shot really three in a row, back to back, as "Don’t Come Knocking" took altogether five years and as I shot "The Soul of a Man" and "Land of Plenty" in between.

For more information on Wim Wenders, visit his official website or the site for his production company. More about "Don’t Come Knocking" can be found at its official site.

Many thanks to Wim Wenders and Pati Keilwerth for their help with this article.

Imagine going from a being a young man in Texas loving Larry Mullen Jr.’s drumming skills, to opening for U2 in two of the biggest stadiums in the world years later, to talking shop with Mullen after shows and recording a cover of "I Am the Walrus" with Bono for Julie Taymor’s upcoming musical featuring Beatles songs, "Across the Universe."

Secret Machines drummer Josh Garza grew up a U2 fan. He loved "The Joshua Tree" and "Rattle and Hum." He was even at the show where BB King performed with the band, as shown in the feature film version of the latter album. When first asked what it was like to open for U2 in Monterrey and Mexico City, Mexico, Garza’s opening line was, "Man, are you kidding me?" He still considers himself “a U2 freak.”

One thing you should know about New York City-based Secret Machines is that the band’s in it for the long haul, even if that means it takes until the fourth album to get some regular radio play and a sizeable fan base. Interference.com spoke with Garza earlier this month about opening for U2, the new album, “10 Silver Drops,” the band’s second, and the problem with achieving longevity in the music industry today.

(Photo credit: Klaus Thymann)

You’ve just opened for U2 in Mexico. How did it go?

Man, are you kidding me? It was amazing.

It’s such a long story. I mean, it’s actually not a simple question because growing up I was a U2 freak. I kind of broke away because I started getting into rock music and playing rock music. I’m a drummer. [The band] kind of lost me in the ’90s because they started going all electronic, but playing with them and seeing them again, it was like, all is forgiven. I’m still a U2 freak. I think I couldn’t talk for at least three days after those shows because I was just yelling my ass off to every song.

Was that your first time seeing the band?

No, believe it or not, I saw them on the Joshua Tree Tour. You know in "Rattle and Hum" where they had B.B. King in Fort Worth? I was at that show.

It was really weird because I always felt that they betrayed … I grew up air-drumming to Larry Mullen and putting on the headphones and beating on pillows to Larry Mullen and then at some point they went "Achtung" and "Zooropa" where they went a little more electronic. They lost a bit of Larry that I loved…that sound that he had. But, it was more me than them because that’s the time I started getting into rock ‘n’ roll. That’s when I started really playing in bands and we were into rock and, in a weird way, U2 wasn’t cool then in the rock scene, especially my college rock scene.

They’ve always had a coolness problem. But in the ’90s when they got a little weird and experimental, they became a little more cool because they were more dialing into the music of that time. The darker edge of Nine Inch Nails really influenced "Achtung Baby" and the club scene in Europe really influenced the work of "Pop," but I can see the more classic rock-ish sound of "The Joshua Tree" was uncool back then even though "With or Without You" was such a major hit.

Yeah, exactly. I still love "Rattle and Hum," especially the studio songs and I still listen to that record.

It’s a wonderful record. I love the Dylan duet, "Love Rescue Me," and I think that they did that one night recently in Brazil. After all these years to pull that out of the hat.

Well that’s the funny thing about seeing them play is that you’ll see them play two-and-a-half hours and then it’s like, "Well they didn’t play this, this and this," and then, "Where could they have played that?" Unless it’s going to be a four-hour concert, they can’t play all the songs that people love. It’s ridiculous to be at that point in a band where you can actually not play a handful of hits because there’s not enough time.

Exactly, there’s not enough time. Fans like to discuss and pick apart the set list, saying, "Where’s ‘Electrical Storm’?" or "Why aren’t you doing more songs off of ‘Achtung Baby?’ or even "Bad" from "Unforgettable Fire" …

They played "Bad" in Monterrey. I was blown away because they do do the occasional deep album cut for the fans.

But playing with them and getting to hang out with Larry, like after the Mexico City shows, I got to really talk to him about drums. He’s a really cool cat, it wasn’t like he couldn’t be bothered, he really wanted to talk shop and we just talked about drums.

As a band, you always want … when you start playing gigs and start playing in front of your five friends, you always go, "Well just imagine if you’re playing the biggest stadium." And then the chance actually comes to play with U2 in Mexico City, which is one of the largest stadiums on the planet, just filled to capacity and it’s like, okay, what do I imagine now, you know? That I’m only playing to those five friends?

I know … where do you go from there?

Exactly. They’re really inspiring, and in a good healthy way. This is a band that, as big as they are, nobody gave a shit about them on their first two records. It took the third record just to be college cool and then it took the fifth record to be a household name and that is what we want to do. Because obviously we’re not cool. The Secret Machines aren’t the hip new band. Outside of the critics and journalists, other bands like us and that’s where we’ll start and I’m not worried about it because maybe it’ll take our fourth, fifth, sixth record before people are like, "Oh yeah, I was into them since day one." It’s like, yeah, whatever, it doesn’t matter.

I like the way U2 has … they’re just having a really good time with it. I can imagine them really being a bitch about, "Man, screw you guys, this is our X record and we’ve been doing it for years." And no, they’re actually really fun and they take what they could get.

They’re still hungry.

Yeah. And it’s still cool that they have us opening up because it shows me that they still keeping in touch with bands that are off the radar, that are bubbling up and they’re like, okay, this band is supposed to be kind of cool, let’s see if they are worth a shit. We’ll have them open up, see if they can hang, if they can play a show in front of this many people without losing their cool.

Exactly, and to give bands like the Secret Machines a shot at wider exposure …

Yeah and it just sucked that it was in Mexico because Mexico’s not really known for its influence on world music. If you’re big in the UK it means so much more, but it’s funny because people in Mexico were more fans of rock ‘n’ roll that I’ve seen in all of Europe. It was twofold. A., you have U2 and B., they haven’t been there in awhile, so it was a big party and like I said, the people in Mexico like rock ‘n’ roll. Especially Mexico City, that’s a rock n’ roll city and it was cool to get that experience because you never know when you go somewhere if [it] is or isn’t into rock. You go to Italy and it’s like, they’re not really into rock. They’re fans of rock ‘n’ roll and they’ll come see the Foo Fighters play, but there’s not the vibe of a rock ‘n’ roll city. In Mexico, they love rock ‘n’ roll and U2’s a rock ‘n’ roll band and it was really, really a big party.

That’s such a great environment to play in. To know the audience is right there with you and it’s just a big celebration, which I don’t think happens nearly often enough because rock concerts should be a celebration, it shouldn’t be so … We all live in New York City and so many shows are filled with hipsters who just cross their arms and roll their eyes or whatever, trying to be cool.

Yeah, there’s this level of here we are and I don’t mean to quote Kurt Cobain, but, here we are now, entertain us. And that isn’t really there … when we were in Mexico, it wouldn’t have really mattered who opened up for U2, they would have been into it because it was a celebration, it was a party, there’s some rock ‘n’ roll, we’re all here. I’m glad it was us and I think it went over well, but it just really helps when the crowd is ready and they don’t see it as like they paid money now they’ve got to be entertained. They paid money to be at a party. The whole place was dancing. I don’t know how Bono made the guy in the top-most row, the shittiest seat in the house, feel like dancing, but he was up there dancing and it was really amazing.

When you were on the road, did you receive the famous Bono talk?

Well it’s funny, we didn’t really get that one, but with the one we got, it did come up. We did a song with him. There’s a movie coming out, "Across the Universe." Julie Taymor’s making a movie, a musical, with The Beatles’ songs and we did "I Am the Walrus" and Bono sang it. We didn’t really get a chance to meet him. We recorded the music and then sent it to him as they were on tour in Canada and he did the vocals in Montreal. So he was already kind of familiar with us. He’s doing a movie, singing the song and you know it’s going to come up—"Who’s this band?" And doing The Beatles in general is pretty difficult, it’s almost like you don’t do that, you don’t cover Beatles because it’s The Beatles and, on top of that, it was "I Am the Walrus," which is a difficult psychedelic song that they already pretty much perfected.

So when it came up there, we just talked about that recording and there was talking about us maybe doing some more songs for the movie because Julie ended up liking the song, the way it sounded and Bono I think gave us some mad props. So we talked about that, we were like, hey, maybe we’ll do some more songs, telling him thanks for making us sound good and he was like, "Man …" He was thanking us for making him sound good. It was really cool. So I think we bonded like that on a weird musical level, like we were musicians as opposed to him being Bono and us being this band he doesn’t know from a hole in the ground.

I’ve heard a lot about Secret Machines’ live shows. You’re very passionate and very into connecting with your audience like U2 was when they were starting out and how they are now. Why do you feel all of that is important?

Well, I think it’s only because sometimes I don’t see it happening as often as it should be. One of the main reasons people start a band is because they went to see a show and were so blown away and so inspired, that you want to do that yourself. The "Wow I want to do that when I grow up" kind of attitude. And then you start playing music and then, you know, we moved to New York and, even from Texas days we would go see a band and a lot of times it’s like, you know what, I think the songs are great but there’s no intensity, there’s no … I don’t believe the band.

It doesn’t ring true.

Right. You’re going, "Man, do I need to be here?" That was one of our missions with the band. Let’s make everybody feel like they’re a part of this. Being intense, being loud, or having your shit together and just putting on a good show. I think one of the biggest compliments I ever got was about four years ago. We were playing in Brooklyn and there was only a handful of people there and we played and went to the bar and had a drink. And this guy was like, "Hey, you’re in the band, right? You know what? It’s not really my type of music and I’m not really into that kind of thing and it’s not my style, but I couldn’t leave because I had to see how it ended." And I was like, wow, you know? That’s all you want. You want people to feel …

You want them to feel something.

Right. And even if they’re not into it, you want them to get sucked in. And you can only do that by just really going up there and doing your thing and not trying to be cool and not trying to be hip. It just seems like a lot of bands these days have great albums, but you go see them live and it’s like, man, this is a recital.

It’s like you’re watching robots and they’re just going through the motions. You don’t believe it. Their heart just doesn’t seem to be in it. You wonder where their intentions are. Is it just for the money or the girls or the fame, or is it to truly connect with an audience.

Yeah, it’s different for every band. There used to be a time when it was live and die for it on stage and I think that’s not the case anymore. A band will become really, really popular and successful before they even set a foot onstage. And I think that’s not really helping music out, but at the end of the day, I don’t really care too much. It’s like, well, I have my band and we have our agenda and we’re just going to do our thing and let everybody else do theirs and I think the audience will be the final judge.

Your conscience is clear because you’re in it for the right reasons.

The only reasons. But we’ll see if that rings true for the rest of rock ‘n’ roll and its legacy that it’s making right now.

You mentioned that you had moved to New York. What do you think it is with New York that that makes musicians and artists want to live here?

We were living in Dallas and that part of the country, basically the whole middle part, it’s just really difficult to be any type of artist. You know, a band, a photographer or a writer. There’s just not really the infrastructure, so to speak, to support it. We were really into music and we really wanted to feel like the day we die that we gave it our all. And we couldn’t say that living in Dallas. We felt that if we stayed in Dallas we would get nowhere fast. We would just be stuck there and at the time, one of the main things that all people have in common on this whole planet is that they want to see this world. People call it vacationing, or trips, so whatever you want to call it, people want to go see the whole world. And we were like, let’s move.

We moved to New York because we felt like it got us that much closer to Europe and we’re really interested in going to the UK, going to the Germany and just seeing Europe in general. And we moved here and hit the streets hard and we really tried to make something happen here. It was a little bit harder and easier. Harder in a sense that it’s harder to get your foot in the door in New York because with some bands, if you’re not cool, you’re not cool. If you’re cool, then you’re set. And we were never really cool because when we moved to town in the fall of 2000, we moved just in time to have it be the Strokes and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, the Rapture and that whole scene was exploding. I think one of the first gigs we saw was the Strokes at Mercury Lounge when they had their month-long residency there. And we were looking at each other going, damn, this sucks because we’re coming to town with our thing and our thing is not cool right now. It’s not in, it’s not happening. Everybody’s looking at us going, man, what are you doing? If you do four songs in 40 minutes, it’s like, what are you doing? And we just stuck with it and it just seems like, here we are, years later, we have our second record coming out. And people have kind of taken to it. I feel like music should be like restaurants, you know? You don’t always want to eat Indian food every day. Sometimes you want Chinese or vegetarian. Some nights you want to cook at home.

Right now it’s so, there’s only this type of band. And this type of band only does one type of song. And it’s like, Jesus, what happened to the good ole days with like U2, where every album has its ups and downs, they have the slow songs, they have the rock songs. It feels like that’s being lost these days. You get one band, you get a good song and it’s like, damn, the whole record is that one song over and over again.

It’s like they’re a one-trick pony. And then you have all these other bands that get signed because they sound just like that other band. We’re going to have Killers clones all over the place next year.

Yeah and the Killers are just basically what was going on before them—the dance electronic pop. And that’s totally cool and I have nothing against it, but it doesn’t help a lot of the smaller scenes. It definitely doesn’t help TV on the Radio, doesn’t help Secret Machines. But at the end of the day, we’re gonna be the best band that is still putting records out. That’s the problem with getting to the masses too quick. They’ll drop you.

Exactly. You become the flavor of the week and people get sick of you because of the media saturation around you. Slow and steady wins the race.

Hell yeah. We’re not going to have a problem with that! [laughs]

A great thing to strive for is longevity.

Exactly. You have to put the extra effort in. You have to stay on the road and keep putting records out and I think eventually if you are good and you have a good team put together, then you can sustain and hopefully you get to the point one day when you’re playing bigger and bigger places, but even then it’s not always about that. I mean, Townes Van Zandt wrote some of the greatest songs and to this day nobody even knows who he is. I’m glad he kept putting records out. And there’s actually a thousand examples of bands like that. Occasionally one of them breaks into the mainstream and the mainstream goes to them, but I think that’s what U2 really inspired in us. They kind of reminded us of that fact. It’s like, hey, do your thing and if you do it well and you do it right and you’re lucky, you’ll be rewarded.

If you build it, they will come …

Yeah. I think that’s the old school way. They don’t really let that happen too much anymore. But I think we’re really going to try and change that and after every record we’re going to try and get a few more crowds, a few more people.

Speaking of which, I understand you are playing SXSW and the Langerado festivals. Do you enjoy playing those types of shows?

Actually I do. They’re kind of fun. For awhile there, it seemed like festivals in the US were kind of … they weren’t too fun. Even Lollapalooza in the mid ’90s, it just seemed like they were trying too hard. And in a weird way, in the last five to six years there’s been a resurgence with Bonnaroo, Coachella and all these festivals. SXSW has always been around and it’s doing really well. It’s a good chance to go play somewhere where there’s this crowd that wants to hear music. They want to check out something good, something new and a little more experimental. The festivals are fun, but you almost lose track because it’s not your show. So you can just show up, play and leave it at that. And it’s always fun. We hope to do festivals in Europe this summer.

Those are great. They have amazing bills.

Yeah, they do. They always have a ton of festivals everywhere.

You wonder what the US is doing wrong, why New York can’t manage to put one together. I mean, Across the Narrows last year bombed for whatever reason and, then, Field Day hasn’t worked out, but you wonder why the New York area can’t pull it together and have our own Coachella.

I know, I’ve thought about that. I just think it’s too ambitious. You look at these festivals … I remember the last one where it was like, they were on the same day. I’m not much of a rock scientist, but, you can’t particularly split your crowd in half. And then on top of that, they have to choose between two locations that are not near each other. I just thought it was a bit ridiculous. I think they really need to think about making a festival in New York and have it actually be in Manhattan. I think the Manhattan crowd is very particular to Manhattan. I live in New York City, Manhattan and I don’t care who’s playing in Jersey, it’s just over a bridge. I don’t go over there. And that’s just how it is, but if you put a show in Manhattan, one that you could take a cab or a train to, I’ll go to it. I think they’re underestimating people’s willingness to not leave Manhattan, to not leave Brooklyn.

We’re so insular … we don’t get off the island very much.

I know, and I think they have to cater to that. It’s like, the crowd at Bonnaroo, that’s a different crowd of people. It’s further out, people can camp; it’s that kind of crowd, it’s that kind of scene, it’s that kind of people who probably do camp more often. I know people in New York that like to camp, but not at a show. It’s just a different crowd and I think that’s why it usually doesn’t work here. I think it’s a little too ambitious, a little too greedy and then the next thing you know, it’s just a bunch of crap.

Tell me about "10 Silver Drops."

It’s the new record … it’s the classic second album. We feel like we didn’t have much of a sophomore slump on this one. We produced it ourselves; we mixed it with Alan Moulder [Nine Inch Nails, Smashing Pumpkins]. We’ve wanted to work with him for awhile, since the first album, but the scheduling didn’t really work out. So when this next album came up, he was still at the top of the list. I think this time around it was easier for us to mix it with him because we were able to pick and choose where we mixed.

On the first record, I think the label really wanted us to mix it in LA because it’s closer to the label, since it was our first record. They weren’t really worried, they just wanted to keep a good eye on us, have us nearby. Moulder doesn’t really work outside of London, he likes to work near home. So this time around, we were able to go and mix in London, for about three-and-a-half weeks and it was great. I just think it’s the next step. We tried not to make the same record again and we tried to do things differently and, also, we were somewhere else. When we made the first record, we hadn’t been on the road, we’ve always played shows here and there and for this album we’d been on the road. There’s a different feel, a different vibe, a little more confidence that the first album didn’t have. I think that it sounds different, but yet it’s still us.

What are your touring plans behind it?

After we do SXSW, we go to the UK for a proper UK tour and that’ll be a good month. In April we do some US dates, in May I think we do Europe and then after that I think we do a US tour. Basically it’s just staying busy. The record will come out and I think most of our fans will get it and these initial tours will be catering to them, playing smaller venues.

We told the label to kind of ease off of it. We told them, look, let’s not come out of the gate swinging because I think our fans will be turned off by that because, in a weird way, it’s like ignoring your fan base and trying to have a radio hit single. And so we told them, just ease up a bit; let the record come out, let us tour, let it bubble up, let the press come out because we really feel like we’ve been fortunate enough with the press that they like us, every review’s been positive, it’s like four-out-of-five stars and it’s always been really good, so we’re like, let’s do it that kind of way, let it be gradual and, if by chance, somebody somewhere wants to play it on the radio, okay, then maybe we’ll start saying let’s go for it. Let’s maybe take it to that next level.

I think the mistake we made on the first album … the mistake the label made is thinking that they would try too much too soon. And then what happens is, after two years touring, they’re already over it. The label is like, okay, the record didn’t do anything, so they’re over it. And it’s like, how about we do it gradually? We come out slowly but surely and just let it happen and maybe near the second half of the touring, near the end of the record, that’s when they can come in and be like, if there’s anything happening we’ll help out. We want to do it more natural because everyone knows when a band is forced and nobody likes that, especially your fans. We have a really small fan base and we don’t want to alienate them. People are smart enough to recognize that. You can’t pull a fast one on anybody these days.

"10 Silver Drops" will be released April 25th on Warner Brothers Records. For more information on the Secret Machines, visit the band’s official website or MySpace page.